Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
I would say speaker simulator … but those guitarists are soo old school they would never consider such an option
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Loud Guitarists, What are my Amp Options?
- Thread starter twc1313
- Start date
I think "see themselves as the star" is very unfair. However they do see themselves as the only person who is considering the big picture/sound as a whole and the audience rather than their own performance - and depressingly often they are right.
I’ll wait til later to address this, when I’m not typing on a phone. Suffice to say that while you are often correct, so am I. I’ll cite a slew of experiences.
In Ear Monitors with Hearing Protection Safety Ear Muffs over them (the ones used in shooting ranges). Better yet, join a new band 
Keith Richards said the sound person is the most important person. Sure some are idiots. We are talking about guitarists who can’t get their sound at any volume. Why not? That’s a personal problem. Maybe play classical guitar for awhile.
But hey this is TB. Too often we think we sound good with that burp fart and forget we are supposed to be felt. We are the important ones here of the sound makers.
We who join the rhythm with the melody and define the chord.
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There are exceptions to every situation. There are some people labeled as a sound man who know nothing about what they are doing, and shouldn't even be allowed near any sound gear. Likewise with guitarists (and other instruments too), people that should have their instrument taken away from them and banished from the stage as they are incompetent, and a danger to others.Too loud guitarists are wanking
Keith Richards said the sound person is the most important person. Sure some are idiots. We are talking about guitarists who can’t get their sound at any volume. Why not? That’s a personal problem. Maybe play classical guitar for awhile.
But hey this is TB. Too often we think we sound good with that burp fart and forget we are supposed to be felt. We are the important ones here of the sound makers.
High sound pressure levels are the most immediate danger; perhaps the amplifiers should be confiscated and ukuleles, or nylon string guitars handed out until they learn something about music.
410 won't cut it. get a 610, boost your mids and cut you lows. if the guitars have a lot of low end then there is no need to add more. just fimd a tone that's audible in the mix.
depends on the venue, audience and genre. in our case yes 412s and 810s at 50-300 person bars/clubs is the norm and people love it and expect it.
and yes we all wear earplugs...i'll now get off your lawn.
Except in this case, you're contributing to the problem, not finding a solution.
Edit: I think it's simplistic to think that adding two more 10 inch speakers will determine the difference between successfully filling out in the mix, or failure.
Technological fixes are bandaids.
I saw Cold Blood. Look them up!
Bass tone! The stage had to expanded to hold the B3 two leslies as well as full horn section.
The opening act played Fender Super Reverbs and Proreverbs 40w amps. They were too loud and shrill. Cold Blood filled the place with big full music! Much larger louder gear. Excellent concert. Musicians who played together to make a show.
I saw Cold Blood. Look them up!
Bass tone! The stage had to expanded to hold the B3 two leslies as well as full horn section.
The opening act played Fender Super Reverbs and Proreverbs 40w amps. They were too loud and shrill. Cold Blood filled the place with big full music! Much larger louder gear. Excellent concert. Musicians who played together to make a show.
Was it the more powerful gear, or the musicians knowing what to do with it and knowing their sonic space in the audio spectrum? Many of the problems are created by people not knowing what they should be doing in the context of a band, and walking over the other musicians. Put one or more of these individuals in a band, and they'll ruin things pretty quickly.
i disagree. if the guitars are too loud and bass heavy then the bass needs to sit higher in the mix. more mids, less bass and more speakers should help fill out the scoop that the guitars are creating.
I had this problem in my last band and I found the best solution was just to wait and live through 2-3 years of never getting asked back to a venue again. Suddenly we had no stage volume problems any more.
don't know, i'm north of the border but for originals i guess 300 is probably on the high end of small. i'd say most are under 250 though and that's with breaking some fire codes.
Here you go - for $45 each, but one for each guitarist
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LittleBAB--jhs-little-black-amp-box-passive-amp-attenuator
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LittleBAB--jhs-little-black-amp-box-passive-amp-attenuator
New thought: I've been using a GED-2112 preamp in my rack, and it's "Drive" channel really cuts through in rehearsals, although I'm only dealing with a single guitarist. But he is running his Krank head into a 4-12".
I'm really new to the world of effects, so I'm asking this for @twc1313 : Could the Tech 21 YYZ pedal help? Or any other bass specific effects pedals?
And, I agree with the sentiments of folks who say loud bands get told to not come back by a lot of clubs. I experienced this a time or two. I played with a guitarist/lead vocalist, who played through a 2-12" Mesa Combo amp, and hard hitting Drummer who played a DW set. These guys played LOUD. I was using my Crest CA9 a Demeter HBP-1 preamp, and a Bergantino HT210/HT115 setup. Each cabinet was getting roughly 500 watts each, and I was still getting buried onstage. I was mainly playing my Lull M5V with Duncan single coils, which can really slice through most of the time. Not with these guys though.
I learned a few things: First, I talked with Jim Bergantino. He suggested that I boost my eq around 250 hz. This definitely helped. But I realized the voicing of the Bergantino cabinets I had were marvelous for R&B and Modern Country, and I was playing Rock. I researched like mad here, and I eventually bought a pair of Mesa Powerhouse 212 cabinets. IMO they're killer for Rock.
@twc1313 Have you expressed to your guitarists that they're simply playing too loud? And if so, what was their responses?
I'm really new to the world of effects, so I'm asking this for @twc1313 : Could the Tech 21 YYZ pedal help? Or any other bass specific effects pedals?
And, I agree with the sentiments of folks who say loud bands get told to not come back by a lot of clubs. I experienced this a time or two. I played with a guitarist/lead vocalist, who played through a 2-12" Mesa Combo amp, and hard hitting Drummer who played a DW set. These guys played LOUD. I was using my Crest CA9 a Demeter HBP-1 preamp, and a Bergantino HT210/HT115 setup. Each cabinet was getting roughly 500 watts each, and I was still getting buried onstage. I was mainly playing my Lull M5V with Duncan single coils, which can really slice through most of the time. Not with these guys though.
I learned a few things: First, I talked with Jim Bergantino. He suggested that I boost my eq around 250 hz. This definitely helped. But I realized the voicing of the Bergantino cabinets I had were marvelous for R&B and Modern Country, and I was playing Rock. I researched like mad here, and I eventually bought a pair of Mesa Powerhouse 212 cabinets. IMO they're killer for Rock.
@twc1313 Have you expressed to your guitarists that they're simply playing too loud? And if so, what was their responses?
A Sledgehammer.
Buy a couple Marshall Valvestate 25 amps or equivalent hybrids that get pleasant tube tone but SS power amp control.
Then smash the 4x12 cabinets, heads on top, and Sonic Maximizer pedals with the sledgehammer.
They should be ashamed of themselves for hauling that much guitar amp to anywhere but an outdoor festival.
Buy a couple Marshall Valvestate 25 amps or equivalent hybrids that get pleasant tube tone but SS power amp control.
Then smash the 4x12 cabinets, heads on top, and Sonic Maximizer pedals with the sledgehammer.
They should be ashamed of themselves for hauling that much guitar amp to anywhere but an outdoor festival.
I have, I'm pushing for in-ears and smaller amps. The main guitarist has complained that he hates lugging his cab, amp, two mains, two floor monitors, and a big mixing board. I keep telling him, a Kemper, two mains, and in-ears are way less to move!
I did make some progress on this gig of doom when I put bass on my Rumble at 9:00, both mids around 2:00,and went more for my bridge pickup. It was a different sound I'm not used to, but there was definitely more clarity to my notes. Likewise the built-in overdrive on the Rumble did make me stand about a bit too. I like the Rumble OD and think I will look into dialing in a more "always on" type of light distortion that will give me a nice tone in the mix.
Also noticed some positive changes when I nearly dimed the mid knob on my Jazz bass (it's a Sire), I kept the frequency knob in the middle to get more of the 500ish range and less of the 80-250 range that the lower half provides.
I'm also going to switch sides and stand next to the other guitarist. He's not as loud and his cab beams a bit more, which means I should be hearing myself easier. The saga will continue!
