Louder Rig

[Stevorebob]

I've forgotten. What is this thread about again?

 

[JimmyM]

Mephisto,

Just happened to be looking for the thread where Agedhorse indicated that the Sound Shaping circuit was required to be used.

Yes, he was politely confronted with the fact that the 3 filters have on off switches.

We were looking for the record to see if he backed off that position. it is believed that he did.

We have seen people run off this site for being as condescending as you.

We believe that while science has much to do with what we work with, we believe artistry and mastery is what actually makes music.

Otherwise the sequencer and synth crazed 90's would still rule and there would be no Bass Players.

We believe that's an amazing amount of non-sequiturs in one reply.

Hey we conceded...what else do you want?

I suppose we could take all of our experience and go self immolate.
Is that what will satisfy you folks?

Nobody likes a good bonfire better than me, but self-immolation is so 1960's.

 

[nashvillebill]

For centuries, people noticed that a rock would drop faster than a feather. Why? Well, the rock weighed more than the feather, so the conclusion was that heavier objects would drop faster than lighter objects. Then Newton came along and actually observed that the force of gravity causes all objects to fall at the same rate. Of course, many people disputed him--they know what they saw--the feather fell more slowly! A few folks were open-minded enough to ask, then why does a feather fall more slowly? A little bit of scientific study determined that it was actually air resistance that causes the feather to fall more slowly. A famous test at the Tower of Pisa proved Newton was right, and an astronaut on the moon demonstrated Newton's theory again by dropping a feather and a rock at the same time, and they both fell at the same rate in the vacuum of space. Of course, there's still folks who don't believe Newton or that we went to the moon.

So back to speakers. Somebody plugged an amp rated 100 watts into speakers that were rated 400 watts. The speakers blew. Uh--must be because the speakers were UNDERPOWERED! Gee then why don't all speakers blow when the volume is turned down? Uh...must be because the amp was CLIPPING! That's got to be it, clipped signals destroy speakers!!

Of course, those who actually knew amps, and knew loudspeakers, soon figured out that it can't be clipping alone. A square wave--the purest form of clipping there is--can be driven into a speaker and the speaker doesn't necessarily blow. They even discovered speakers can merrily handle a square wave all day long; in fact, guitar loudspeakers see heavily clipped waves all the time, and some keyboard/synth sounds are in fact square waves...their speakers aren't blowing. Then the speakers in the PA (that's amplifying the guitar and keys) aren't blowing. The speakers in home stereos and car stereos, that are playing back the pre-recorded clipped signals, aren't blowing.

So why are speakers blowing? Well, considering many speakers are rated by their thermal limit alone, others are seemingly rated by marketing executives randomly picking a number. Mechanical excursion? Oh yeah, that contributes to a speaker's demise. Then the correlation between an amp's output power and its rated power is explained: an amp is rated perhaps at 100 watts but that rating represents maximum clean power; when driven into full clipping it can generate up to 200 watts theoretically. The real answer then comes out: that so-called 400 watt speaker wasn't capable of going to full mechanical excursion when driven continuously with 200 watts of power. Yes the amp was clipping, but it was the excess power that was produced as the amp went into clipping, not the mere presence of a clipped signal. That's a huge distinction and one that has been reiterated here many times, to no avail.

If we took the 100 watt amp out and replaced it with a 200 watt amp, would the speaker still fail? Most likely, YES! 200 watts is still too much power for the speaker, whether it's a clean sine-wave 200 watts, or a square wave that's 200 watts.

The speaker is not failing from underpowering. It's failing from OVERPOWERING. The solution is more speaker capability, not a bigger amp.

 

[xk49w]

I had to go back to the beginning to see what started all this fun. As near as I can tell...

As written above, your underpower issue is probably why you are blowing speakers.
Buy more speakers and you will be replacing more speakers.

There is no underpower, only Zuul!

 

[Jeff Scott]

...self-immolation is so 1960's.

I love that scene in Harold and Maude..................

 

[SunnBass]

For centuries, people noticed that a rock would drop faster than a feather. Why? Well, the rock weighed more than the feather, so the conclusion was that heavier objects would drop faster than lighter objects. Then Newton came along and actually observed that the force of gravity causes all objects to fall at the same rate. Of course, many people disputed him--they know what they saw--the feather fell more slowly! A few folks were open-minded enough to ask, then why does a feather fall more slowly? A little bit of scientific study determined that it was actually air resistance that causes the feather to fall more slowly. A famous test at the Tower of Pisa proved Newton was right, and an astronaut on the moon demonstrated Newton's theory again by dropping a feather and a rock at the same time, and they both fell at the same rate in the vacuum of space. Of course, there's still folks who don't believe Newton or that we went to the moon.

So back to speakers. Somebody plugged an amp rated 100 watts into speakers that were rated 400 watts. The speakers blew. Uh--must be because the speakers were UNDERPOWERED! Gee then why don't all speakers blow when the volume is turned down? Uh...must be because the amp was CLIPPING! That's got to be it, clipped signals destroy speakers!!

Of course, those who actually knew amps, and knew loudspeakers, soon figured out that it can't be clipping alone. A square wave--the purest form of clipping there is--can be driven into a speaker and the speaker doesn't necessarily blow. They even discovered speakers can merrily handle a square wave all day long; in fact, guitar loudspeakers see heavily clipped waves all the time, and some keyboard/synth sounds are in fact square waves...their speakers aren't blowing. Then the speakers in the PA (that's amplifying the guitar and keys) aren't blowing. The speakers in home stereos and car stereos, that are playing back the pre-recorded clipped signals, aren't blowing.

So why are speakers blowing? Well, considering many speakers are rated by their thermal limit alone, others are seemingly rated by marketing executives randomly picking a number. Mechanical excursion? Oh yeah, that contributes to a speaker's demise. Then the correlation between an amp's output power and its rated power is explained: an amp is rated perhaps at 100 watts but that rating represents maximum clean power; when driven into full clipping it can generate up to 200 watts theoretically. The real answer then comes out: that so-called 400 watt speaker wasn't capable of going to full mechanical excursion when driven continuously with 200 watts of power. Yes the amp was clipping, but it was the excess power that was produced as the amp went into clipping, not the mere presence of a clipped signal. That's a huge distinction and one that has been reiterated here many times, to no avail.

If we took the 100 watt amp out and replaced it with a 200 watt amp, would the speaker still fail? Most likely, YES! 200 watts is still too much power for the speaker, whether it's a clean sine-wave 200 watts, or a square wave that's 200 watts.

The speaker is not failing from underpowering. It's failing from OVERPOWERING. The solution is more speaker capability, not a bigger amp.

Yeah, it's purely been a semantics issue. Which is more important than some are willing to accept.

 

[Chef]

Hey we conceded...what else do you want?

I suppose we could take all of our experience and go self immolate.
Is that what will satisfy you folks?

This "we" being who, exactly?
This is a moderator asking...

 

[wneff]

OK I am starting a service: If you think you are underpowering your cab you can send me the cab and I replace the drivers with speakers with lower power rating (to match the amp) so you stop blowing them. Great idea?