Loudness issue

[ReeV0]

Hi all,

I have previously been using a TC RH750 paired with a single TC RS212 for my pub gigs. Have never had an issue with low volume, always sounded loud and punchy.

Fancied a change of gear so I sold the TC stack and bought myself a Harley Benton Block 800B paired with a Barefaced Big Baby 2.

Had my first pub gig with the new stack last night, and to say I was less than impressed is an understatement... Low volume, low bass and lack of punch. I read great things about both the head and cab before purchasing, so I was confident they would at least match the TC in terms of volume, but no. I had the amp cranked and it just sounded lacking, both on stage and in the audience. With both setups I was playing with a singer, guitarist and drummer (4-piece band).

Aside from the RS212 being a 2x12, and the BB2 being a 1x12, I can't think why my new stack would be so much worse. RH750 into 8ohm would be around 150W, and the 800B into 8ohm would be around 500W. I really don't get it!

 

[abarson]

A 212 moves about twice as much air as a 112.

 

[ReeV0]

A 212 moves about twice as much air as a 112.

I was under the impression that the BB2 was the equivalent to a decent 2x12, hence the high cost and 800W power rating?

 

[Aloe]

from what I found, the RS212's sensitivity is 103dB, the Big Baby is 97dB, to compensate that difference you need to 4x the power, which is the thing you don't have, so clearly your new rig will be quieter.

please also note that watts don't translate to loudness literally, there might be heads percieved as louder and quieter despite the same RMS power rating. especially, one of selling points of the RH was it should be louder than it's RMS rating.

so, basically, if your goal is to go with only one Big Baby to save bulk and weight, the first thing you need is a crazy powered head. there're some, but they cost money. like Trace Elliot TE-1200 or DNA-1350.

if you are okay with getting a second cab instead or in addition -- that could also work. getting a 2nd Big Baby will give you +3dB for doubling the speakers and + like 2dB for 500->800W. so, again, this setup likely won't get you as loud as your old rig, but not by that much. would that be enough? unpredictable, as a different head also plays role in perceived loudness/headrom/sound profile and likely not on your side in this case.

 

[Marko 1]

I have previously been using a TC RH750 paired with a single for my pub gigs. Have never had an issue with low volume, always sounded loud and punchy.

Fancied a change of gear so I sold the TC stack and...

May I ask why you would try to fix what wasn't broken?

Was the rig too big and heavy?

 

[JimChjones]

Also I note that the RS212 is a vertical 2*12, so if you have both on the floor the RS will be delivering its volume a lot closer to your ear. A stand/table might be worth considering.

May I ask why you would try to fix what wasn't broken?

Is that a sensible question to ask on TB? [grin] What percentage of us could honestly say that we've never acquired new gear on an idle whim rather than cold logic?

 

[lug]

from what I found, the RS212's sensitivity is 103dB, =

Where did you find this?!?!?!? I have 2 RS212's and have always wondered but couldn't find the info, just knew they were loud!

 

[abarson]

Ma

I was under the impression that the BB2 was the equivalent to a decent 2x12, hence the high cost and 800W power rating?

Marketing vs physics

 

[ReeV0]

from what I found, the RS212's sensitivity is 103dB, the Big Baby is 97dB, to compensate that difference you need to 4x the power, which is the thing you don't have, so clearly your new rig will be quieter.

please also note that watts don't translate to loudness literally, there might be heads percieved as louder and quieter despite the same RMS power rating. especially, one of selling points of the RH was it should be louder than it's RMS rating.

so, basically, if your goal is to go with only one Big Baby to save bulk and weight, the first thing you need is a crazy powered head. there're some, but they cost money. like Trace Elliot TE-1200 or DNA-1350.

if you are okay with getting a second cab instead or in addition -- that could also work. getting a 2nd Big Baby will give you +3dB for doubling the speakers and + like 2dB for 500->800W. so, again, this setup likely won't get you as loud as your old rig, but not by that much. would that be enough? unpredictable, as a different head also plays role in perceived loudness/headrom/sound profile and likely not on your side in this case.

I thought the 800B would be a decent head seeing as how the power amp is an ICEpower 700, the same used in the Magellan, GK, Darkglass etc...

I do also have a BF Super Midget but I was trying to downsize/carry less to gigs. Why wouldn't that be louder than my old rig? I should have probably made it clearer that I was previously just using one RS212 2x12 cab.

Changed gear because... GAS And I wasn't a massive fan of the tone or the awkward shape to carry the RS212. But I'm starting to regret my decision, not to mention the money wasted...

 

[agedhorse]

I thought the 800B would be a decent head seeing as how the power amp is an ICEpower 700, the same used in the Magellan, GK, Darkglass etc...

I do also have a BF Super Midget but I was trying to downsize/carry less to gigs. Why wouldn't that be louder than my old rig? I should have probably made it clearer that I was previously just using one RS212 2x12 cab.

Changed gear because... GAS And I wasn't a massive fan of the tone or the awkward shape to carry the RS212. But I'm starting to regret my decision, not to mention the money wasted...

Now you understand that it’s not just the parts themselves but how they are used that matters most.

 

[ReeV0]

Now you understand that it’s not just the parts themselves but how they are used that matters most.

Very true. I'm just not sure I see what all the Barefaced hype is about, with the "unique" driver and extremely high prices... Think I'll either switch back to the RS212 or try and find another good 1x12

 

[Jazzjames]

Very true. I'm just not sure I see what all the Barefaced hype is about, with the "unique" driver and extremely high prices... Think I'll either switch back to the RS212 or try and find another good 1x12

Try the BB2 with an amp that can really drive it before you get rid of it. I would also guess, having never heard the head you’re using, that you don’t like its voicing and you’re used to the TC baked-in tone. No disrespect to Harley Benton, I use some of their products, but they are on the budget side of things.

Even though the BB2 is (from what I have read) incredible for a 1x12, you can’t expect it to break the laws of physics. If I were you I’d still see if you can make the BB2 work for you, as they are highly regarded and portable. There are some seriously potent amps out there which could maybe give you what you’re missing.

 

[arbiterusa]

Marketing vs physics

Tattoo this on the forehead of every bassist out there running a tiny cabinet, wondering why they cannot be heard.

 

[ChrisB2]

Tattoo this on the forehead of every bassist out there running a tiny cabinet, wondering why they cannot be heard.

Then we have to walk around with a mirror strapped to our heads so we don't forget the lesson.

Why not just have our wives remind us constantly?

 

[Marko 1]

Small and light-weight has its place, but it's like a religion with some of these folks.

I wonder how they carry bags of the groceries from the car to the house.

 

[lug]

Small and light-weight has its place, but it's like a religion with some of these folks.

I wonder how they carry bags of the groceries from the car to the house.

I only shop at stores with the thinnest plastic bags. Sure, I might lose som groceries, but I can feel superior to those who have to tote thicker bags. : smug:

 

[pineweasel]

I ran a single BF Super Compact with a Tone Hammer 500 and had no complaints at all, volume wise, playing pub gigs. I later switched to TKS 1x12s with the same amp, preferring the tone, but I needed two of them.

Maybe worth shooting an email to Alex at Barefaced for advice?

 

[Carl Hillman]

Small and light-weight has its place, but it's like a religion with some of these folks.

You’ll get old (like me) some day.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

EQ is also another factor to consider (and other things like HPFs, roll-off on speakers, etc.) that can greatly affect your perceived volume. I'm sure you know that "Noon" is not truly "Flat" on darn near any amplifier...there is some baked-in tone to most any of them in varying degrees. Might be worth tweaking or cutting some frequencies you left or boosted before.

Something like an HPF will pull out some of the super low frequencies, but give you more power on tap for audible frequencies, this may yield an increase in perceived volume. For setups with single drivers it can help. Plenty of great advice in here though...speaker number, height, power handling, and many other factors also play into the perceived volume. I'd grab another identical cab if I were you.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

You’ll get old (like me) some day.

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Now that I’m 64, I know why older people always seemed so miserable.