Have you been to talkbass before?May I ask why you would try to fix what wasn't broken?
Was the rig too big and heavy?
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Loudness issue
- Thread starter ReeV0
- Start date
This is why I never, if possible, get rid of an amp, bass, whatever, when I buy new gear.
Then I let the dust settle and maybe dump it.
I always put dinky little amps on a chair. Try it.
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I use a single 12” cab for many gigs because of the easy setup and transportation. My setup is no slouch: Audiokinesis TC112 rated for 500 watts and I drive it with a Quilter BB800. With some PA support it’s often enough. But even in rehearsals with a drummer I use a second cab. And if it’s appropriate, I like having the second cab on stage……because it always sounds better to me.
The Barefaced BB cab is going to be closer to a flat PA/monitor sound and reproduce what you put into it. If you don’t like what you’re getting it’s because you preferred the “baked in” sound of the other amp and how it combined with the cabinet voicing. Since both of those were made by TC there’s a good chance the ears behind the gear has a common goal in mind. With a mix & match head and cab you aren’t getting products designed to work together.
From my perspective the BB2 is a very good cabinet so I’m inclined to say the amp is the weak link in the chain. That said, I’ve owned both 10” and 12” cabs from Barefaced and I think the 10” voicing is probably preferable for use as a bass cabinet in most scenarios. I found the 12” cabs often worked best with a cab sim pedal in the chain. Ultimately, I ended up going with two BB2 cabs and a power amp to use as a stereo PA system. If I was just going to be playing bass and using their cabs, I’d have gone with the Two10.
I’d suggest giving the BB2 another shot with a different head. Maybe you’ve got a friend who can loan you one for a test. You’ll probably need to try some EQ tweaks in the low mids.
It's easy think 500w must be a lot louder than 150. In the best of cases, everything being equal, everytime you double the power, it only 3db louder. In real life, probably a bit less.
Then if we use 2 of the same cabinets instead of 1, there's a similar boost of 3db. Again in the real world, maybe a bit less.
So the way to be noticeably louder is generally to buy an amp with more output to drive more speaker cabinets. This is why when you go to a big touring artist concert you see walls of PA bins. More amps, more cabinets. (though these days, most flying PA is self-powered, but still the same idea).
Otherwise you could have a small stack at either side of the stage with massive power amps to cover an arena: It just don't work that way.
Then if we use 2 of the same cabinets instead of 1, there's a similar boost of 3db. Again in the real world, maybe a bit less.
So the way to be noticeably louder is generally to buy an amp with more output to drive more speaker cabinets. This is why when you go to a big touring artist concert you see walls of PA bins. More amps, more cabinets. (though these days, most flying PA is self-powered, but still the same idea).
Otherwise you could have a small stack at either side of the stage with massive power amps to cover an arena: It just don't work that way.
How did that work for you? I am glad you shined light on the truth so others won’t be duped by the marketing.
It needs three replacement 15s but this...
Vintage 1960s/1970s Kustom 3x15" Unloaded Cabinet | Reverb
You're welcome
Considering how you use the amps then, could it be down to the speakers. A 4ohm 2x12 vs an 8ohm 1x12? Or if the 2x12 is 8ohms, it could be as simple as 2x12 vs 1x12?
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Lots of hindsight is 20:20 observations here, of course...
There is math behind "why gear sounds how it does" but there is also a lot of other science going on, and that other science in conjunction with the math created the sound you liked in your old rig.
I've been there. I remember when I realized I didn't like 12's as much as 10's. And I remember when I realized that even in a higher powered rig, if the frequency response wasn't strong enough in the low range my drop C# was going to sound like garbage. (not your exact situation, but similar)
There is math behind "why gear sounds how it does" but there is also a lot of other science going on, and that other science in conjunction with the math created the sound you liked in your old rig.
I've been there. I remember when I realized I didn't like 12's as much as 10's. And I remember when I realized that even in a higher powered rig, if the frequency response wasn't strong enough in the low range my drop C# was going to sound like garbage. (not your exact situation, but similar)
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Only to thick plastic bag users. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
It's already been said but forget the marketing hype. A single 12 is not equivelent to to two 12s in the world we currently live in. Even if it could handle 10 billion watts and you had an amp that could deliver it, there is a limit to how much air a 12 inch speaker can move.
D
Going from 2x12 to 1x12 is a huge difference, no matter what marketing/specs say. Also, having the same ICE module as in more respected brands means very little if it's poorly implemented. Harley Benton is a budget, entry level brand and you tend to get what you pay for with bass amps. Cheap basses have become surprisingly good over the years but cheap bass amps are usually not very good IMO.
You might get the volume you need if you lift the 1x12 closer to ear level but it sounds like you may have made a poor decision here. Do you still have the 2x12?
You might get the volume you need if you lift the 1x12 closer to ear level but it sounds like you may have made a poor decision here. Do you still have the 2x12?
I think, this is the root of your problem. run the bass into front and set the gain right.
the FX loop is for line-level devices, bass guitars are not meant to plug into them directly. try running into instrument input and setting gain right, this should give you enough juice for the stage (since you're already going to FOH). you're losing much volume and definition by going in wrong input.
let's put it like this: if you'll add a second bb2, you'll gain 6 dB, but you're losing about 10dB by plugging a bass to fx return.
if you absolutely don't like how the preamp colors the sound, IDK, get a MarkBass. a LM Ninja or a Little AG 1000 will help you get the most from one or two Barefaced 12's. but you have to run bass in the right input.
A couple of things......and for transparency I have had a couple of Barefaced BB cabs for about 10 years and used a multitude of amps through either both of them or just a single cab at smaller gigs.
I initially thought that comparing a single 1x12 BF cab to your old 2x12 TC cab would be the issue - there's no replacement for displacement and all that jazz. But the Barefaced drivers are high excursion and actually move backwards and forwards more than regular speakers. Consequently they shift more air than expected. Probably not quite as much as a 2x12 but more than a normal 2x10 or 1x12.
You are firing it at your knees rather than your body if you're up close though. The Barefaceds throw a long way into a crowd and disperse sideways more than most - have you had a walk forward to see what the volume is like 50 feet away? When i first used them i was flattening people at the back wall of a venue and thinking the close up volume was about right.
They are also really flat/neutral in their response and I found I had to over EQ them to get them working for my ears. I boost the bass more than i did with other more coloured cabs but the cabs can absolutely shake walls. There is no issue with their capability of projecting/handling lower frequencies. Try EQ'ing with your ears rather than your eyes. I went through a phase of trying some Bergantino cabs (CN212 ad a few 1x12 types) to see if they were better but they weren't even close to generating the slam that the BF's could.
That brings me to the amp your using. I think that's the issue.
You've gone from an older top pro level RH750 to a modern budget amp based on the strength of a few guys saying how good they are for the money. Even though the RH750 was actually rated at a lower power output it had some really clever limiting going on that made it feel much louder than the numbers would suggest and it also had a baked in classic rock sound. I have a Quilter BB800 which is a similar rating to your Harley B and through a single Barefaced cab it can blow the windows out of a small/medium sized pub without breaking sweat. If the Harley is based around modern TC technology i would bet that it's inherently pretty sterile sounding and lifeless in a band scenario. Most amps sound great at home or at low levels but the acid test is when you put them in with a band full of conflicting frequencies flying around. It really isn't a case of a box of similar components stuck together sounding about the same - the designers goal and sonic preferences really do make a big difference in my experience and the BF cabs will really expose the differences between them.
I would try another amp - begged or borrowed - before you scrap the cab. I've had a few class D micro amps and they all sound quite different through the same cab. Some suited me more than others but the cab was a constant. I love the Quilter, quite liked the Genzler Magellan 800, couldn't get on with a Mesa Subway 800, found a GK Fusion 500 too spiky sounding and hated a Mark Bass Evo.
I initially thought that comparing a single 1x12 BF cab to your old 2x12 TC cab would be the issue - there's no replacement for displacement and all that jazz. But the Barefaced drivers are high excursion and actually move backwards and forwards more than regular speakers. Consequently they shift more air than expected. Probably not quite as much as a 2x12 but more than a normal 2x10 or 1x12.
You are firing it at your knees rather than your body if you're up close though. The Barefaceds throw a long way into a crowd and disperse sideways more than most - have you had a walk forward to see what the volume is like 50 feet away? When i first used them i was flattening people at the back wall of a venue and thinking the close up volume was about right.
They are also really flat/neutral in their response and I found I had to over EQ them to get them working for my ears. I boost the bass more than i did with other more coloured cabs but the cabs can absolutely shake walls. There is no issue with their capability of projecting/handling lower frequencies. Try EQ'ing with your ears rather than your eyes. I went through a phase of trying some Bergantino cabs (CN212 ad a few 1x12 types) to see if they were better but they weren't even close to generating the slam that the BF's could.
That brings me to the amp your using. I think that's the issue.
You've gone from an older top pro level RH750 to a modern budget amp based on the strength of a few guys saying how good they are for the money. Even though the RH750 was actually rated at a lower power output it had some really clever limiting going on that made it feel much louder than the numbers would suggest and it also had a baked in classic rock sound. I have a Quilter BB800 which is a similar rating to your Harley B and through a single Barefaced cab it can blow the windows out of a small/medium sized pub without breaking sweat. If the Harley is based around modern TC technology i would bet that it's inherently pretty sterile sounding and lifeless in a band scenario. Most amps sound great at home or at low levels but the acid test is when you put them in with a band full of conflicting frequencies flying around. It really isn't a case of a box of similar components stuck together sounding about the same - the designers goal and sonic preferences really do make a big difference in my experience and the BF cabs will really expose the differences between them.
I would try another amp - begged or borrowed - before you scrap the cab. I've had a few class D micro amps and they all sound quite different through the same cab. Some suited me more than others but the cab was a constant. I love the Quilter, quite liked the Genzler Magellan 800, couldn't get on with a Mesa Subway 800, found a GK Fusion 500 too spiky sounding and hated a Mark Bass Evo.
Every time I switched amps I kept the old one around till I was convinced. ... TC750 would have been putting closer to 350 watts at 8 ohms. ... I had a RH450 and it was plenty loud enough but I moved to a TH350 because I prefer the pre-amp and didn't need that much power. ... Maybe it's not too late to get her back.
where do you think you are? TB is the fix something that wasn’t broke one stop shop for rationalizing gear purchases!
