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Low Down Sound 15/6.5 Cab

#182
Not sayin' you don't sir; all I can do is relate what my experience is.
So far, for me, my use, that 2x12+2x6 has been nothing but sweet.

Again, the 15/6 may well stand up to more brutal use than the 2x12; I guess I don't push stuff hard enough to hrut either one.

greenboy said:
Uh, yeah, I don't play or gig. Ya CAUGHT ME!
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#183
greenboy said:
I have to wonder what you are seeing there. I'm seeing and hearing a nearly flat response from the 18 Sound in that region.
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1300hz is where the 15"KLLF peaks. But you knew that.

Don has another 156 cab for sale just like Chef's if anyone is interested.
 
#184
Chef said:
DeltaLiteII 12's:
# Power rating: ........................... 250 Watts RMS
# Useable frequency range: ............ 48Hz to 4kHz

I'm no engineer, and perhaps real world limits of that driver, or thermal limits of that driver are something I should be more concerned about.
So far, that 2x12+2x6 cab has been more than happy to eat 300 watts of Walkabout or 600 watts of M6 in any situation I've asked it to; doing what I do.
I'll say the same thing about this situation that I said when someone was worried about me bridging 1200 watts of WT800B into a 475 watt rated Henry 8x8:
I'm not advocating turning it all the way up, turning the bass all the way up, and slapping the heck out of your bass. But when used by me, the way I use stuff, to get meet my tone and volume needs, it's not been any kind of problem over repeated long term use.

Is the 15/6 capapble of taking more power/abuse than a 2x12 DeltaLite loaded cab? Heck, I dunno. If the 2x12 scenario is fragile-and yet it survives my use, I reckon I'm not likely to push the 15/6 hard enough to find out.

Typically, my rig is all there is for any job I do. I don't need to be Mega-Loud in any band I work with. Typically, vocals, piano, sax and maybe the kick drum are all that's in the PA, which is either one Bose Stick/sub, or a Mackie powered head with 2 12+horn out front. So, my needs may not be your needs. I may not work gear as hard as other guys might. Ya follow? Ok then;)
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I understand what you are saying completely, I don't slap or unload tons of transients from aggressive plucky of slapping, and I don't turn up to absurd levels. That why I figured a couple of Deltalite-IIs would be great for me, but I was shyed away from the idea by several posts in this thread.
 
#186
Chef said:
Not sayin' you don't sir
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Ah, Chef, though I quoted you, it was an jibe at Ryan's bit about "real world experience" ; }

Again, the 15/6 may well stand up to more brutal use than the 2x12; I guess I don't push stuff hard enough to hrut either one.
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Basically the driver properly used is a real boon for low tuners, low B players, etc - but also people who want non-distressed sound and durabilty at real high levels without hauling another enclosure around.
 
#188
Actually only the woofer has a shallow slope. I used a coil on the woofer and a 3rd order filter on the mid.

Ralf

Blues Cat said:
You also have to keep in mind Chef that the high and low pass are shallow slopes;). So you're still getting below 1300hz thru the mid, it's just gradually rolled off.

If you look at a graph of both speaker's response you can see why Ralf chose 1300hz.

Looking forward to the outdoor gig review.
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#190
The whole Fearful 16/6 thread addresses this in depth, and plans are availalbe both ways

Certainly a horn would benefit people who want a more modern/shinier sound; and if you go the LDS route, all you'd have to do is ask for one to be added.
 
#191
A good HF driver/horn combination sparkles and bites marvelously with the woofer + midrange combination. It integrates seemlessly if crossed and padded correctly. Even a cheapie setup like seen in most bass cabs with a less-than-optimum crossover will sound a lot nicer as the midrange cone fills the big frequency response gap you hear in almost all two-way bass cabs. Then a lot of that tweeter clack and harshness no longer stands in bold relief.
 
#193
According to Eminence, in a properly tuned cabinet for bass guitar, you're going to be displacement limited to about 125-175 watts. In the real world, your 500w amp doesn't often put out all that much down low so chances are good you're not going to hit that a lot. On the flipside, you may be distorting your drivers (pushing past xmax but not xlim) and not know it. Another thing to keep in mind is that lots of people don't crank the heck out of a 500w head - and I doubt Chef does.

And on the flip-flipside, if someone plugs a 5-string into your 500w head and starts pounding away at the B-string with a pick, the 15/6 is probably going to survive it just fine - but a pair of 2512 IIs is a lot less likely due to their displacement limitation.

I didn't mean to scare you Ryan, as 2512 IIs are probably sufficient for your needs. But honestly, I think the 2512 IIs are a waste of money at this point. A single 3015 (not LF) will do the same thing and do it just as loud. They work, but when buying a new cab I'd go with the Kappalite (Either LF or not). They are amazing.
 
#194
Another thing to keep in mind with Chef's cab comparison is that his Deltalite II cab probably cost a lot more, is bigger, and weighs a good bit more, I would imagine. So even if it is comparable, it's being outperformed at every other level - smaller, lighter, cheaper.

A pair of Deltalites (without extended xmax) is around 260 to the 160 or so for a 3015 LF, and the pair of Alphas is right around the same price as an 18 sound driver. I am positive that 2x12/2x6 box is a bit heavier at least (5-10lbs, chef?)

If I'm wrong there let me know but I couldn't imagine that 2x12/2x6 cab coming out at less than the 3015LF cab costs. I'd expect about 50-100 bucks more.
 
#195
greenboy said:
A good HF driver/horn combination sparkles and bites marvelously with the woofer + midrange combination. It integrates seemlessly if crossed and padded correctly. Even a cheapie setup like seen in most bass cabs with a less-than-optimum crossover will sound a lot nicer as the midrange cone fills the big frequency response gap you hear in almost all two-way bass cabs. Then a lot of that tweeter clack and harshness no longer stands in bold relief.
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Hey Green, do you mean a coaxial mid driver? Do you have one in mind that would work with this LDS cab? I like the highs, but don't like tweeter clack/hiss either.Thanks, this is the best thread ever.
 
#197
rpsands, if I'm not mistaken the displacement-limited power handling that Eminence calculates is based on sine waves, so it doesn't translate directly over to the waveform that a bass guitar generates. The energy is spread out somewhat, with the fundamental and first harmonic being of greatest significance from an excursion standpoint. I would guess that the fundamental carries ballpark 15% of the energy, and the first harmonic maybe 35% of the energy (correction welcomed on these assumptions), so if a given cab could handle 75 watts at the fundamental and 175 watts at the first harmonic then it can probably handle 500 watts, assuming no equalization.
 
#198
greenboy said:
Ah, Chef, though I quoted you, it was an jibe at Ryan's bit about "real world experience" ; }
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Sorry about that, I wasn't saying you didn't have real world experience gigging and whatnot, I just saying that it was nice to hear an a/b between two cabs. I have been learning about speakers/cabs and all the terms and figures that go along with them for only a week, so some of this is overwhelming for me, thought I am interested. I wish I could understand everything you are saying, but I am just better talking in terms of sound/tone. Sorry for the derail.
rpsands said:
I didn't mean to scare you Ryan, as 2512 IIs are probably sufficient for your needs. But honestly, I think the 2512 IIs are a waste of money at this point. A single 3015 (not LF) will do the same thing and do it just as loud. They work, but when buying a new cab I'd go with the Kappalite (Either LF or not). They are amazing.
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Nah no problem. Thanks for the opinions, really. I emailed Don about building a TL606 with a single 3015, and he didn't seem to keen on the idea. He recommended the Eminence CB15 instead for my tonal goals.

Don Oatman said:
I would look in to the Eminence CB15 at 300 watts. It is a vintage sounding speakers that can be installed in a smaller box than most 15's It also has a smaller voice coil, and good high end extension, also the mid content is more lod school than many 15's. If i built you a cab with just this speaker it would run 429.00 in carpet.
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#199
I put dimensions and weights in the post.
Cost was similar; but I've had the 2x12 for some years now.

rpsands said:
Another thing to keep in mind with Chef's cab comparison is that his Deltalite II cab probably cost a lot more, is bigger, and weighs a good bit more, I would imagine. So even if it is comparable, it's being outperformed at every other level - smaller, lighter, cheaper.

A pair of Deltalites (without extended xmax) is around 260 to the 160 or so for a 3015 LF, and the pair of Alphas is right around the same price as an 18 sound driver. I am positive that 2x12/2x6 box is a bit heavier at least (5-10lbs, chef?)

If I'm wrong there let me know but I couldn't imagine that 2x12/2x6 cab coming out at less than the 3015LF cab costs. I'd expect about 50-100 bucks more.
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