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Low Down Sound 15/6.5 Cab

#41
Chef said:
Expecting an 8 ohm 15/6 to outperform a decent 4 ohm 410 is expecting quite a bit, I think.
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I don't see it as a stretch provided you can deliver more wattage. The 3015LF/6ND410 combination can be driven so much harder without overexcursion. IT's really tough to make it ever sound like it's on the verge of losing the plot - the sound continues to be true and non-fatigued - just louder!
 
#42
Kindness said:
It sees the most time with an Ampeg V-4B, a 100 watt Marshall clone I built and the Fender Twin Reverb clone I built (pictured). It can do a lot with 100 watts and sounds great in "fuzz land" with the Ampeg and Marshall. I prefer the Acmes (B2s) and with the Thunderfunk and my pre/power amp setups.


I can see you cringing through the interwebz! ;)
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Nah... different strokes for different folks. I tell you what, that passive 62 J reissue with the TecAmp Puma (which is VERY warm and fat) put a BIG smile on our faces with that cab.
 
#44
Working with mid-drivers is nothing new for LDS:
lds_3.jpg


6x8rig.jpg
 
#47
alexclaber said:
Confused!? What do you mean?

Alex
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My guess is, he's just talking about the form factor of the cab, with Don's being kind of short, squat, and almost square, and other designs being taller and thinner in depth and width.

I'm glad I got to hear one of these type of boxes. Quite frankly, I would be a bit nervous getting one without an attenuator on that mid driver. There is SO much sound in the driver, and I'm not sure the EQ on most amps could control it if a fixed pad was set at a point that didn't line up with the user's tone goal. These would also make GREAT dub cabs, with the mid driver attenuated down to a low level IMO. And, it seems, as discussed above, cranking the mid driver up a bit would allow the addition of a second one way cab with that beautiful 15 for the big low end and volume without breaking the bank. Nice!

These cabs are definitely not my thing, but again, for the P Bass players, the tube amp guys, and even for the J Bass guys who prefer a more 60's/Nickel wound round tone, this design, in general, (I assume each builder has their own tweaks) is quite impressive, and fits with the whole Bergantino NV sort of vibe of 'updated vintage' to my ear.

Nice stuff!
 
#48
Do you have the dimensions of the LDS cab? It looks at most an inch wider than the Big One but much shorter.

Regarding attenuators and the sound of the mid driver, you can change the sound massively by how you design the crossover, plus different mid drivers all sound different. In fact there is more tonal variation possible at the design stage than there is between all the 4x10"s on the market!

Alex
 
#49
alexclaber said:
Do you have the dimensions of the LDS cab? It looks at most an inch wider than the Big One but much shorter.

Regarding attenuators and the sound of the mid driver, you can change the sound massively by how you design the crossover, plus different mid drivers all sound different. In fact there is more tonal variation possible at the design stage than there is between all the 4x10"s on the market!

Alex
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I don't. I would guess around 21 by 21 by 17, but that's just a guess, based on each of those little micro heads sitting side by side are about 10" across.

You missed my point Yes, there is SO much sound in that mid driver that the crossover and padding decisions become a HUGE part of that cab's sound. If the 'fixed tuning' of that mid driver (padding and crossover type/tuning) by a designer is in a direction away from where the player wants to be, it would be hard to 'fix it' with most bass amp EQ IMO. It seems including an attenuator (even if that has a slight impact on the performance of a crossover) would be a VERY good thing in order to help voice the cab given the wide variety of voicing of various amps and basses.

IMO!
 
#50
KJung said:
I don't. I would guess around 21 by 21 by 17, but that's just a guess, based on each of those little micro heads sitting side by side are about 10" across.
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So basically the same width and depth but almost 10" shorter.

KJung said:
You missed my point Yes, there is SO much sound in that mid driver that the crossover and padding decisions become a HUGE part of that cab's sound. If the 'fixed tuning' of that mid driver (padding and crossover type/tuning) by a designer is in a direction away from where the player wants to be, it would be hard to 'fix it' with most bass amp EQ IMO. It seems including an attenuator (even if that has a slight impact on the performance of a crossover) would be a VERY good thing in order to help voice the cab given the wide variety of voicing of various amps and basses.
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I totally got your point. I can't imagine someone having a problem dialling in their sound on my cab but it took almost a year of design, build, measuring and redesign iterations to get the crossover design to the point where the drivers totally integrate and you really don't hear the sound of the mid and the sound of the woofer, you just hear the whole cab. The kind of L-pad that can handle enough power for such a crossover would be huge, heavy, expensive and would seriously mess with the crossover response especially as it started to heat up. An L-pad on something crossed at 1.6kHz is one thing, an octave lower is another, especially when you're using drivers that are quite happy with a 2000W power amp bridged into them.

Alex
 
#51
alexclaber said:
I totally got your point. I can't imagine someone having a problem dialling in their sound on my cab but it took almost a year of design, build, measuring and redesign iterations to get the crossover design to the point where the drivers totally integrate and you really don't hear the sound of the mid and the sound of the woofer, you just hear the whole cab. The kind of L-pad that can handle enough power for such a crossover would be huge, heavy, expensive and would seriously mess with the crossover response especially as it started to heat up. An L-pad on something crossed at 1.6kHz is one thing, an octave lower is another, especially when you're using drivers that are quite happy with a 2000W power amp bridged into them.

Alex
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+1 I'm sure all these different executions have their own vibe, and I also agree that if you cross over that low, and L pad would not even be doable.

I believe the cab we tried out was crossed over at 1.3K (Ralf posts the exact description of the crossover in the LDS Mega thread). There was also no built in pad on the mid driver. With the attenuator set at around 10 o'clock, it was a thing of beauty to my ears (again, assuming you like a more vintage vibe to your tone, which seems to be the primary audience for these types of cabs, looking at who owns them or has them on order, and what heads they are using).

Very nice stuff for sure, and definitely a lightweight and wider frequency range option to the Bergantino NV type vibe, which also sounds articulate, fat, warm, vintage, but weighs a tone!

Also, the Acme guys should look into these. Similar low end extension, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better midrange response, SPL, volume, punch, articulation... IMO everything.
 
#52
I got an estimate from Don a couple weeks ago where the dimensions had a height around 30". Pretty similar to the Barefaced. I think the one demoed in this thread was spec'd to the shorter dimensions. (probably wrong but I'll say it anyway.)

Looking forward to the LDS design getting sorted out. I think one of these would work well with my old TF-420 and be lighter than the 212 DrBass I have. I would go for a Big One from Barefaced but the combo of currency conversion and shipping really adds up.
 
#53
bassplace said:
I got an estimate from Don a couple weeks ago where the dimensions had a height around 30". Pretty similar to the Barefaced. I think the one demoed in this thread was spec'd to the shorter dimensions. (probably wrong but I'll say it anyway.)

Looking forward to the LDS design getting sorted out. I think one of these would work well with my old TF-420 and be lighter than the 212 DrBass I have. I would go for a Big One from Barefaced but the combo of currency conversion and shipping really adds up.
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I'm just guessing on the measurements, so I might be off. I'll give Don a quick call and post up the exact dimensions.

Edit: Just talked to Don. This particular cab is 20" tall, 23 1/2" wide, and 18" deep... so I was pretty close on my guess.

K
 
#56
KJung said:
My guess is, he's just talking about the form factor of the cab, with Don's being kind of short, squat, and almost square, and other designs being taller and thinner in depth and width.

I'm glad I got to hear one of these type of boxes. Quite frankly, I would be a bit nervous getting one without an attenuator on that mid driver. There is SO much sound in the driver, and I'm not sure the EQ on most amps could control it if a fixed pad was set at a point that didn't line up with the user's tone goal. These would also make GREAT dub cabs, with the mid driver attenuated down to a low level IMO. And, it seems, as discussed above, cranking the mid driver up a bit would allow the addition of a second one way cab with that beautiful 15 for the big low end and volume without breaking the bank. Nice!

These cabs are definitely not my thing, but again, for the P Bass players, the tube amp guys, and even for the J Bass guys who prefer a more 60's/Nickel wound round tone, this design, in general, (I assume each builder has their own tweaks) is quite impressive, and fits with the whole Bergantino NV sort of vibe of 'updated vintage' to my ear.

Nice stuff!
Click to expand...

That's me. :D I think I would definitely dig this vibe of these cabs, either a 15/6.5 or a 212/6.5 would be great for me. Warm, fat, vintagey, but articulate and punchy throughout the mids.

Is the cab not your thing because it is a 1x15, or is it the voicing of the LDS cabs in general?

Lastly, do you think the 15/6.5 with a 500 watt head would be able to compete with loud guitars, or would another cab be necessary to pair with it.
 
#57
Ryan Mohr said:
That's me. :D I think I would definitely dig this vibe of these cabs, either a 15/6.5 or a 212/6.5 would be great for me. Warm, fat, vintagey, but articulate and punchy throughout the mids.

Is the cab not your thing because it is a 1x15, or is it the voicing of the LDS cabs in general?

Lastly, do you think the 15/6.5 with a 500 watt head would be able to compete with loud guitars, or would another cab be necessary to pair with it.
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From our discussions, I think you would dig this design a lot. I actually LOVE the deep low end, but as you know, I prefer that more 'modern' top end consisting of the upper mids coming from my 10" drivers, and then extended further up by a high quality tweeter (Just personal preference there).

I know that these can be made into a three way design, so I'm still interested (I love trying all this stuff).

I tell you what, Don's passive 62 J Reissue was just SMOKING through this cab. That upper mid driver transmitted that upper mid/lower treble grind beautifully. And, as posted above, even though the cab is 8ohms, the SPL, etc. seems very good, and my MB head wumped pretty well. I think Alex has reported very good results with the LH500 into it.
 
#58
I think KJ didn't find it to be his cup of tea due to no horn.

He likes it pretty shiny on top, and a paper cone mid driver-even a great one-just isn't "that."
 
#60
I don't know if this is helpful, since we all come from different music backgrounds, preferences, and even generations, but if you dig Bob Glaub's tone on Jackson Browne's 'The Pretender', you will love these cabs... that fat, articulate, but still relatively mellow P Bass (or J bass tone), with plenty of brightness, but no sizzle at all.

Also, if you slap tone preference (if you have one) leans more toward early Larry Graham, you would also dig this type of cab voicing.

Of course, take into account that I've only heard one execution, but I have to believe the top end is at least somewhat similar across designs.
 

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