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Low Down Sound 15/6.5 Cab
- Thread starter KJung
- Start date
Soldano used to ship empty cabs to the UK on account they were using celestion drivers, made in the UK. The saving gets passed on to the customer, who doesn't have to pay for the import taxes for the celestion to the US, and then pay for import taxes again on a heavy component that is commonly available in the UK, for the US 'made' soldano product.
Also, this talk about padding the mid driver is sort of barking about about a problem that should be sorted at the point of design. I recall the 18sound driver being about 2 -3 dB higher than the 3015LF or thereabouts and the Beyma being close to parity with the 3015LF on efficiency. A good crossover will sort this out. Padding down a mid driver is a more likely a sign of not being used to mid frequencies being there, maybe those ears are more used to 2 way designs with a heavy mid dip.
This differs widely from your typcal fostex horn where the efficiency is somewhere in the region of 105 - 110 db compared to what the woofers put out, which are usually in the mid to high 90s, even for the 'average' as opposed to hi spec 4X10.
+1, his cymbal work on that is great. Glaub's playing on that track is perfect, just beautiful supportive bass player with tasteful upper register fills. GREAT P bass tone, plently of fat, low mids, and warmth, but with that articulation in the mids.+1 And, a bit OT, but hey, it's my thread, isn't Porcaro's drumming on that track frightening. Legend has it that was a one take deal. I LOVE Glaub's playing and tone on that track (and really just about everything he did during that era).
Ok, so the eminence mid drivers are darker than the 18 Sound design? I think I would dig that kind of top end much more than the sizzly top end you get out of a tweeter. Just personal preference because I don't like a lot of upper treble in my sound, and I don't slap hardly at all, and when I do I dig the Larry Graham sound.
I emailed Don yesterday and he replied today. He said it would possible, and cheaper, to have the same design with a ceramic Eminence 15. I wonder how different it would sound. I'm not concerned with the weight difference. I'm also interested in a 212/6.5 with the same design but just 2 12s instead of single 15, but with the same design in order to supply my head with a 4 ohm load.
Forget about cheaper and go for the Eminence Definimax 15". If you don't have back problems, that is great woofer.
Ralf
- Nov 24, 2008
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- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
The Definimax 15 looks like an interesting woofer. I've used the 12" version.
In order to not have a bass hump the Definimax 15 needs to either be in a sealed box, or in a big low-tuned vented box; but then some people like a little extra thickness down there. Its efficiency is also relatively modest for a 15" bass cab application. I do like its high x-max and thermal power handling, as well as its shorted motor, but based on its T/S parameters it might not be the "flavor" that everyone is looking for.
In order to not have a bass hump the Definimax 15 needs to either be in a sealed box, or in a big low-tuned vented box; but then some people like a little extra thickness down there. Its efficiency is also relatively modest for a 15" bass cab application. I do like its high x-max and thermal power handling, as well as its shorted motor, but based on its T/S parameters it might not be the "flavor" that everyone is looking for.
Why?
- Nov 24, 2008
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The 3015LF has .6 millimeter greater excursion (9.6 mm vs 9.0 mm), which is about 7% more.
The higher cost of the Definimax is probably because of the shorting ring in the motor. In my experience that's a worthwhile feature, as it improves midrange clarity.
The B&C 15TBX100 is an example of what would normally be a subwoofer driver (11 mm of excursion) but the shorting ring in the motor contributes significantly to very good midrange clarity and extension. One of the finest home audio speakers I've ever heard uses this driver, crossed over at about 1 kHz.
The higher cost of the Definimax is probably because of the shorting ring in the motor. In my experience that's a worthwhile feature, as it improves midrange clarity.
The B&C 15TBX100 is an example of what would normally be a subwoofer driver (11 mm of excursion) but the shorting ring in the motor contributes significantly to very good midrange clarity and extension. One of the finest home audio speakers I've ever heard uses this driver, crossed over at about 1 kHz.
If you're referring to the LDS cab, it does use the KappaLite 3015LF. It also uses the 18 Sound 6ND410 6.5" mid speaker.
It'd probably sound great, but not be significantly louder (peak or sensitivity) than a single 3015LFs if you have enough wattage to drive the 3015LF seriously.
Also, the xover design gets fairly complex I believe because you can't get a 4 ohm 6n410. Probably better getting a single 12 sub and a 12/6 with xover and less padding (-2db), if you need a 4 ohm load for some reason.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Hey Bruce!
Well, I can answer that one. Of course, the 115L+ is a tiny, tiny little box, and the Celestion driver is voiced totally opposite of that PA subwoofer type 115 that we are all talking about.
So, in short.....
115L+.... very mid forward, and a tight, somewhat compressed low end and grindy upper mid that comes from (I think) a tightly voiced, full range driver being driven a bit beyond its excursion limits in a small box (from what I learned from Alexclaber... Alex, I hope I got that right). As a result, it's punchy, articulate and just loud as heck, but is much more upper bass oriented than 'shake the ashtrays'.
115/6.5.... that almost subwoofer type 115 with that high xmax (if again I have that term right), will go deep, deep, deep. Since it goes, deep, deep, deep, it won't go even into the lower upper mids, which is why it 'needs' that powerful mid driver.
So, 115L+, a massively tight punch machine that has that 'tight low end/aggressive upper mid grind, with a subtle tweeter on top to add some sparkle. I call it my 'baby AE410'.
115/6.5 (at least the execution I reviewed in this thread).... totally open, smooth, uncompressed deep low end, very even low mids and mid mids (fat), and a more 'bright' upper end (clean, even, paper cone sounding, no sizzle).
Another way to put it, the 115L+ could easily be used by Flea or even Marcus Miller with pretty good results IMO. The 115/6.5 would make Bob Glaub or Sting, or even Chuck Rainey, weep like a schoolgirl (sorry if I offended any schoolgirls... or Chuck Rainey)
I'd be very eager to hear the LDS 115/6.5 paired with a 115L+
I dunno, I am not really sure what the low xmax 115 could provide that the 18 sound's midrange doesn't - and certainly it's nothing in the lows. I would think the best thing to add to a 115/6 would be a 115 with the same driver and size, or another 115/6, depending on how aggressive you want the mids.
Does the 115+ have some kind of pleasing distortion or something? Seems like the mids on the 18 sound midrange would probably whomp it to me.
Ah, one thing is the titanium horn - brutally loud top end. I think you'd probably achieve better results just sticking one of those in the 115/6 and going 3-way.
Does the 115+ have some kind of pleasing distortion or something? Seems like the mids on the 18 sound midrange would probably whomp it to me.
Ah, one thing is the titanium horn - brutally loud top end. I think you'd probably achieve better results just sticking one of those in the 115/6 and going 3-way.
Really? I thought 115s were generally a good deal quieter than 212s. I think I would like to supply my head with a 4 ohm load.
To give some perspective, a pair of commonly used bass drivers - Deltalite 2512 II's - can be 4 ohms, with a sensitivity of ~103db (from 50 hz on up probably in a good ported cab).
A Kappalite 3015LF is ~100db but goes down to 35hz or so (-10db).
But, a 3015LF can eat 450 watts before being displacement limited, and a pair of 2512 IIs even with extended xmax is probably closer to 250 watts depending on the cab tuning, maybe 350. And the 3015LF can take a lot more than 450 before it explodes, that's just when it gets over 10% distortion.
Bottom line it's going to be just about as loud (within 3db), and go lower, as long as you have sufficient wattage. A 4ohm load gets you more wattage of course.
With 3012LFs the story is much different because of their much decreased sensitivity and much increased power handling over deltalites.
- Dec 18, 2000
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This can be amazingly misleading. To get a better idea of what is really going on (if you can't visualize it freely), just overlay the FR graphs of the drivers in question. The numbers themselves don't tell you nearly as much.
Much higher in practical sizes and tunings -
- Much lower, as I recall - again, in practical, oft-seen enclosure sizes/tunings.
So a 3015LF + a 6ND420 would be louder, handle more, and be more efficient than 2 2512s + tweeter (Avatar B212 Neo)? You guys make quite the convincing case.
So one of the 2512s would handle 250 watts, as on the Eminence site, and two would be 500 right, or are you saying two would be 250?
I bet two 3012LFs with a 6ND410 would sound great and handle a lot of power.
1 KLLF 15" from what I've read will be just about as loud as 2 12LF's, smaller and cheaper.
