• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Low Down Sound 15/6.5 Cab

#101
I would say it will be as loud or slightly louder, go a lot lower, but it will take more watts to do it, so not really more efficient.

One deltalite should handle around 125-175w with the extended xmax, generally, depending on tuning and the high pass you use. Definitely requires a steep 40hz high pass to achieve that, if you use a 5-string.

The pair of 3012lfs will be slightly more efficient than a single 3015lf, once the extra wattage for 4 ohms is taken into account, and will be able to get a good amount louder - but not as much as you would expect. Maybe a few db. Greenboy posted a really nice chart of this in the fEarful thread.

I think if space is not a problem, a single 3015LF/6nd410 cabinet will be best and suitable for almost anyone. The 3012LF will take a lot more wattage to get to the same volume, but if you don't need tons of volume, a 3012LF/Alpha 6a is a very nice cabinet also. It'll get very loud with enough watts.

I really don't think I would recommend the pair of 3012LFs unless you need both:
1) More volume than a 15/6
2) Don't want the size of a pair of 15/6s.

I could see going for a single 12/6, since it gets you the ability to use a much cheaper midrange driver (alpha 6) and takes up a good amount less space and is lighter (and cheaper). Still a 12/6 will get as loud as any 2x10 and many cheaper 4x10s.

If a lot of your gigs can be handled by a 12/6, get one of those, and get another one later if you need more. But a 212LF straight away doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me - it's significantly more expensive than a 15/6, heavier, bigger, and not really much of a gain over a single 15/6.
 
#103
Blues Cat said:
1 KLLF 15" from what I've read will be just about as loud as 2 12LF's, smaller and cheaper. ;)
Click to expand...

Definitely just about. The 3012LFs will be slightly more efficient and be able to get a bit louder, but not really enough to justify the cost and weight increase IMHO.

Lots of people are hung up on "My 12s sound better than 15s" or "I really don't want the sound of a 15" - this needs to stop because it simply does not apply to this setup.

I would say the 3012LF has its place, but not in a 2x12 - if you want a 2x12, get a 3015LF instead. The 3012LF can provide superior mobility for sure, and make a very nice modular rig, but in a 2x12 it's mostly pointless.
 
#104
Ryan Mohr said:
Awesome, thanks! I never would have figured a 15" KLLF would be almost as loud as two 12" KLLFs. I wonder how a Kappa-15LFA would sound in Ken's cab. Maybe a little more vintagey?
Click to expand...

It'd be fine but not go as low or be able to be pushed as hard. If you want to save a few bucks, go with the 3012LF + Alpha 6a, as it would be significantly cheaper - maybe 75.00 or so I would think.

The 3012LF has more displacement than a 15lfa and so if you have the watts (which are relatively cheap, 450w @ 8 ohms) it will get as loud and weigh a LOT less...and not require a 6nd410 to keep up.
 
#105
rpsands said:
I think if space is not a problem, a single 3015LF/6nd410 cabinet will be best and suitable for almost anyone.
Click to expand...
Awesome, I'm definitely gonna go with the 115/6.5 setup.
rpsands said:
It'd be fine but not go as low or be able to be pushed as hard. If you want to save a few bucks, go with the 3012LF + Alpha 6a, as it would be significantly cheaper - maybe 75.00 or so I would think.

The 3012LF has more displacement than a 15lfa and so if you have the watts (which are relatively cheap, 450w @ 8 ohms) it will get as loud and weigh a LOT less...and not require a 6nd410 to keep up.
Click to expand...
I know it will be heavier, but how do you figure it won't go as low or handle as much? Eminence site says 600 watts. I just figured I would be saving $50 and getting the ceramic tone I think I would like more.

I'm looking into the 3012LF + Alpha-6A setup. This would be significantly louder than a typical 1x12 (w/ tweet) cab right?
 
#106
rpsands: you're right about not being able to generalise about
"15's sound like this, and 12's sound like that"

how any given speaker sounds has a lot to do with what box it's in.

example:
The LDS 2x8 with long throw 8's, in the bigger version box that Don does, is way deeper and fatter than nearly any other speaker cab I've owned given equivilant volume/amp settings. here's two of them next to an Epi 410UL-which is a pretty big box:
22x8410UL.jpg

Those two 2x8's are substantively bigger and easily match the 410UL-which is not bottom end slouch.

However, those same four long throw 8's in the LDS 4x8 box sound very different: not nearly as bottom heavy.
5504x8.jpg


i might try and take pics of the two 2x8's next to the 4x8 later for further comparison, but, you get the point by now probably;)

varying good designs can produce varying great results...one need not have a 15 to have whomping deep low end, and conversely, having a 15 doesn't mean slow sluggish response with no clarity; etc.
 
#108
Ryan Mohr said:
Awesome, I'm definitely gonna go with the 115/6.5 setup.

I know it will be heavier, but how do you figure it won't go as low or handle as much? Eminence site says 600 watts. I just figured I would be saving $50 and getting the ceramic tone I think I would like more.

I'm looking into the 3012LF + Alpha-6A setup. This would be significantly louder than a typical 1x12 (w/ tweet) cab right?
Click to expand...

Look at the vD figure for max displacement. That pretty much determines real power handling, more than thermal limitations.

The 3015LF has the same sensitivity and can displace a lot more air than the 15LFA, and the 3012LF can displace a little more air than the 15LFa despite being less sensitive.

Obviously the 15LFA is more sensitive than a 3012LF, so it's going to be a little louder earlier, but if you drive them both to their max displacement I think you'll see fairly similar volume - have to model it to know for sure.

The 3012LF + Alpha 6a should be, when driven fully, right around the volume of a high end 2x10, IIRC.

You can check out the maxspl charts in the fearful thread I believe, to get exact numbers.
 
#110
I spent much of the day Saturday measuring and playing through Don's 15/6. I had pretty much the same observations as Ken (although I think he understand the beauty of the tolex). The LPad set at 10 o'clock worked for me too. Surprisingly, when I measured it with the LPad set to the 12 o'clock position, the mid was about 2 db lower than the woofer. So 10 o'clock would be around 3 db down!

Anyway, the actual crossover point of my "untrue" crossover is around 1300Hz and the mid was indeed padded. I've designed a 700 Hz crossover for Don's version of the fEarful 15/6. It differs from the Passwind crossover in that there is less overlap of the drivers. Passwind's crossover allows the 3015LF to "breathe" more.

Ralf
 
#112
Glad to help;)

AFAIK, Don offer's three kinds of 8's:
regular, paper coned
neo, paper coned
and
the long throw I have in my boxes, which IIRC are kevlar impregnated paper, with big rubber surrounds (vs the accordian paper surrounds) that allow the long throws their bigger x-max.

Ralf may have a better/younger answer to this too!
 
#113
Chef said:
Glad to help;)

AFAIK, Don offer's three kinds of 8's:
regular, paper coned
neo, paper coned
and
the long throw I have in my boxes, which IIRC are kevlar impregnated paper, with big rubber surrounds (vs the accordian paper surrounds) that allow the long throws their bigger x-max.

Ralf may have a better/younger answer to this too!
Click to expand...

Yep, the long throws are rubber surround with kevlar impregnated cones. He did get some sample long throw neos from Eminence, but the current economy and Eminence increasing their minimum order quantity means that it'll probably be quite a while before he places an order. He's also built cabinets using the B&C neos and most recently the Eminence hemp cone 8" neo which has better midrange and comes very close to the bass performance of ferrite magnet long throw.

Ralf
 
#115
rpatter said:
Anyway, the actual crossover point of my "untrue" crossover is around 1300Hz and the mid was indeed padded. I've designed a 700 Hz crossover for Don's version of the fEarful 15/6. It differs from the Passwind crossover in that there is less overlap of the drivers. Passwind's crossover allows the 3015LF to "breathe" more.

Ralf
Click to expand...

This sounds great Ralph. I think you'll probably wind up with something fairly similar to the Barefaced crossover from what you're describing. And it should make the midrange a lot safer when running a second 3015LF as a sub, if I decide to order one of those down the road.

Can't wait to give it the old ear test.
 
#116
Mr. Jung, as usual a very articulate and detailed review of the LDS cab. A few weeks back I had a long conversation with Don @ LDS. I told him I like the mid presence of the Schroeders. So, he's going to build me a cab tuned to 50hz. vs. the typical 44. He says this will net a smaller/lighter cab with the mid presence I'm looking for. We're opting for the B&C neo 15NDL76 15" plus the 18 Sound 6.5". He's a great guy and seems to know what he's talking about. I really enjoy dealing direct with the smaller custom shops like LDS.
 
#117
The B&C driver looks like a pretty good fit - more xmax than a 3015 but less than a 3015LF, and should take up less space of course. I suggest you ask for it tall, to get that 18 sound up near your ears!

One very nice thing about B&C is the availability of 4 ohm 15s - not sure how a crossover for that would work, but that could be really nice for say a Shuttle 6.0 or a Little Mark II :)
 
#119
rpatter said:
I spent much of the day Saturday measuring and playing through Don's 15/6. I had pretty much the same observations as Ken (although I think he understand the beauty of the tolex). The LPad set at 10 o'clock worked for me too. Surprisingly, when I measured it with the LPad set to the 12 o'clock position, the mid was about 2 db lower than the woofer. So 10 o'clock would be around 3 db down!

Anyway, the actual crossover point of my "untrue" crossover is around 1300Hz and the mid was indeed padded. I've designed a 700 Hz crossover for Don's version of the fEarful 15/6. It differs from the Passwind crossover in that there is less overlap of the drivers. Passwind's crossover allows the 3015LF to "breathe" more.

Ralf
Click to expand...

Now I'm really confused on which x-over to get in my 2way 156.

Is there anyway to describe the sound of the 3 different x-overs mentioned so I can more easily make a decision?

I'm trying to stay away from ice pick highs. I want to be coming through the 15"KLLF as much as possible, if that makes sense.

Sounds like your "untrue" x-over looks good Ralf.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back