Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Low Down Sound Club: V2
- Thread starter Chef
- Start date
- Status
I experienced the exact same thing with my 15/6 and LMII. High volume with an 8 ohm load = compression. To be honest it was the first time I have been disappointed with the performance of my LMII. That is why I have opted for a bx1500 with my 15/6. I have yet to get that rig to a gig where I need a lot of volume, but that will change this coming weekend.I definitely will. I have high hopes for the Carvin, but I suspect the Puma is going to be the winner.
Interesting thing to note: Today at practice I was noticing how compressed the LMTube sounded through my 15/6/1. Once it was sitting in the mix it wasn't all that noticeable, but it really surprised me at how compressed the leading edge of each note felt. I don't know if it was power compression since I was running the LMTube at a fairly high master volume level into an 8 ohm load, or what, but it was definitely audible. The massive amounts of power in the Puma and the B2000 should solve that problem
Yeah, 300 watts into that big cab is not going to make many happy at high volumes. Most amps, including the LM series, will hit their power amp limiting when really pushed hard, especially through a cab that is putting out quite a bit of low end. At 4ohms, no problem (again, those who say impedance doesn't matter with a moderately powered solid state head are smoking something), but at 8ohms pushing a big cab and lots of lows at high volume, and you are going to run out of headroom. The good news is, these modern amps have pretty sophisticated power amp limiting, so no farting or 'bad sound'... they just stop getting louder, and will feel a bit compressed on the attack.
Remember, these cabs having 'higher SPL' (at least as defined by the typical published SPL spec) than other cabs is measured at the typical 1K, which means very little regarding power requirements, and the fact that they are more even and extended down low (i.e., higher SPL than the typical cab below 100hz) actually results in needing MORE power to get them up to higher volumes, not less (since the amp is working harder to actually drive that low end in these cabs). That is why, for example, the Acme's are SO low SPL. They actually have higher SPL down low, but much lower SPL at 1K. It takes more power to push out low end than high end.
Time for more power!
I'm not up to speed on Don's pricing, but you will be quite surprised at how reasonable the pricing is, given the quality of construction and the top notch components. Give him a call.
I'm not kidding, this is just a killer 112, and probably among the 'best' 112's on the market as a stand-alone, one cab solution for small and moderate sized gigs. BIG sounding, and lots of low end and volume relative to a typical full range two way 112 cab!
I could be wrong, but I seem to remember some of the first ones built were around $475, but I would expect prices to rise as, popularity and demand increases. The reason it sticks out in my memory is because I was considering commissioning a fEarful build even before others started ordering them. I even contacted greenboy to see if he would have a problem with a "commercial" builder replicating his design. I found $475 to be great price, well below the current crop of 4x10s, 1x15s, etc.
I could be mistaken though. Might've been $575.
edit: I was speaking of a 15/6 BTW.
There's several more, and expensive components in the 15/6/1 with the addition of the horn, l-pad and crossover bits.
+1 Price (and weight) can vary quite a bit with options (different finishes, different components, custom Patterson crossover versus 'off the shelf', different tweeters, etc., etc.).
I left a message for Don asking the selling price of the particular 12/6/1 I just posted up. I'll post the price when he gets back to me.
Yep... minimum is about $100 to add /1 to the moniker, more if you have expensive tastes in horns and compression drivers... and that's just parts, no labor.
From the man.... this can vary a bit if you want something overly fancy. All prices based on the top notch components (3012LF or 3015LF, Faital or 18 Sound mid driver, decent tweeter... Eminence or Selenium... 'stock' crossover).
12/6 two way $549
12/6/1 three way $599
15/6 two way $599
15/6/1 three way $649
+/- $50 or so depending on finish, tweeter, crossover, etc. No upcharge for diffent types of hardware within reason (steel versus cloth grill, chrome or plastic corners, etc., etc.). Of course, if you go with cup holders, crazy expensive custom tolex or grill material, or super duty hardware, things can get a touch more expensive.
12/6 two way $549
12/6/1 three way $599
15/6 two way $599
15/6/1 three way $649
+/- $50 or so depending on finish, tweeter, crossover, etc. No upcharge for diffent types of hardware within reason (steel versus cloth grill, chrome or plastic corners, etc., etc.). Of course, if you go with cup holders, crazy expensive custom tolex or grill material, or super duty hardware, things can get a touch more expensive.
My 15/6 is by far the best single box solution I have played AND the best deal I've ever gotten on a cab. FWIW my Dingwall B, downtuned a half step, rings outrageously clearly through this cab, as do even low double stops.
Man my guessing rules.
The reason the 12/6 is more expensive than the 15/6 is that the 3012Lf is actually more expensive than the 3015LF..it's weird.
Also, the faital mid is no bargain either, and the crossover is quite pricey even with Ralf's a little bit less overspecced models.
The reason the 12/6 is more expensive than the 15/6 is that the 3012Lf is actually more expensive than the 3015LF..it's weird.
Also, the faital mid is no bargain either, and the crossover is quite pricey even with Ralf's a little bit less overspecced models.
From KJ
I have read alot of comments in the fEarful threads saying these cabs are louder than regular cabs, but I agree with the above.
Yes, they CAN get louder with the right amp, but if you use an LMII and take a 15/6 and a/b it with an 8 ohm Schroeder 1212, the schroe will be louder because they dont have much inherent low-end... requiring less power to get them loud.
Some guys are seemingly getting away with 300w amps (F1, LMII etc) in medium sized venues, but I know that wont work for me and my band is not that loud.
I have read alot of comments in the fEarful threads saying these cabs are louder than regular cabs, but I agree with the above.
Yes, they CAN get louder with the right amp, but if you use an LMII and take a 15/6 and a/b it with an 8 ohm Schroeder 1212, the schroe will be louder because they dont have much inherent low-end... requiring less power to get them loud.
Some guys are seemingly getting away with 300w amps (F1, LMII etc) in medium sized venues, but I know that wont work for me and my band is not that loud.
I'm running my 15/6 with a ShuttleMax 6-----375watts at 8 ohms. Loud as hell, no compression in small to medium sized venues.
Personally, I think the GB volume knob is much more linear than the MB, which seems to peak early.
Yes, after 1:00 or so the vol of the LMII seems to not go much louder, but I have never done this with anything but my15/6 (which compressed like crazy) so take that with a grain of salt.
However, my general experience is that the LMII is louder than the genz shutte 6.0.
However, my general experience is that the LMII is louder than the genz shutte 6.0.
+1 !
Blondie, my fEarful-designed, LDS-built 15/6, has caused me to decide that I need a 12/6Cube to use separately or in tandem. Once it arrives, I'll be moving out a number of fine, well-known cabs. I wish players who are ordering Avatar neo 212s--normally considered a good value--could hear what another $100 or so will buy. IMO, Don offers custom cabs, build quality second to none AND the best value around.
- Status
