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Low Down Sound Club: V2
- Thread starter Chef
- Start date
- Status
Well, I'm the lucky owner of this cabinet (with a second on one the way)! I used it at a rehearsal last night (instrumental trio, jazz/rock, fairly loud). I used a ShuttleMax 12.0 to power the cabinet. I had the mid-range pad on the speaker set at about 11:00 o'clock and the tweeter at 9:00 o"clock. I usually use NeoX112Ts, so they are my point of reference. I played an MTD 635 (Zebrawood on Mahogany, wenge/wenge) and a Fender Custom Shop V active. A few observations:
The 12/6/1 has *huge* lows without being boomy. It does take a lot of power to push it, and I was surprised how much I had to turn up the gain and master volume (realizing that the position of the volume knobs don't mean much), but I think the SM 12.0 has enough power to make the 12/6/1s "speak".
Don told me during the build process that I would have to revamp my EQ settings with this cabinet. He is correct.
The MTD 635 sounded wonderful. The bass and the amp were set pretty much flat, with just a small attenuation on the SM 12.0 in the 1-2 kHz range. The MTD sounded clear throughout its range. Chords were clear and not muddy at all, and when I dialed in a bit of 250 hz mids on the bass, it really punched.
The Jazz Bass I was not as pleased with. There was a lot of mid range or upper mid range "buzz" like a swarm of bumble bees
. Some players might like that sound but I like a cleaner/clearer tone. I turned down the mid driver and the tweeter a bit, and that helped. With the EQ flexibility of the SM 12.0 I think I'll be able to tame the Jazz Bass to my liking.
I have a feeling that my Sadowsky RV4 will give me results similar to the Jazz, but that's for next week.
The fit and finish on this cabinet is very nice, with a sturdy professional overall look. It's a little heavier than I had hoped (the NeoX112Ts at 10 pounds lighter are much easier to carry).
I am *very* pleased with this cabinet given my tone goals, and will be even more pleased as I learn how set the EQ. Don does great work and has been a pleasure to work with.
Thanks!
Bob
The 12/6/1 has *huge* lows without being boomy. It does take a lot of power to push it, and I was surprised how much I had to turn up the gain and master volume (realizing that the position of the volume knobs don't mean much), but I think the SM 12.0 has enough power to make the 12/6/1s "speak".
Don told me during the build process that I would have to revamp my EQ settings with this cabinet. He is correct.
The MTD 635 sounded wonderful. The bass and the amp were set pretty much flat, with just a small attenuation on the SM 12.0 in the 1-2 kHz range. The MTD sounded clear throughout its range. Chords were clear and not muddy at all, and when I dialed in a bit of 250 hz mids on the bass, it really punched.
The Jazz Bass I was not as pleased with. There was a lot of mid range or upper mid range "buzz" like a swarm of bumble bees
. Some players might like that sound but I like a cleaner/clearer tone. I turned down the mid driver and the tweeter a bit, and that helped. With the EQ flexibility of the SM 12.0 I think I'll be able to tame the Jazz Bass to my liking. I have a feeling that my Sadowsky RV4 will give me results similar to the Jazz, but that's for next week.
The fit and finish on this cabinet is very nice, with a sturdy professional overall look. It's a little heavier than I had hoped (the NeoX112Ts at 10 pounds lighter are much easier to carry).
I am *very* pleased with this cabinet given my tone goals, and will be even more pleased as I learn how set the EQ. Don does great work and has been a pleasure to work with.
Thanks!
Bob
I was just so, so impressed with this cab that I switched my order from the 115HO (which I also love) to this spec. I really like the 115HO a lot, but more as a 'totally different from my typical tone' sort of thing (warm, older school, grindy). While most of the two way 15/6's and 12/6's are just a bit too smooth and polite for my needs, and that 18sound mid driver does not personally speak to me, this particular 3 way spec, with the smoother Faital mid driver and the 'less in your face' Eminence tweeter is just about as close to the old cliche of 'studio monitor sound' as I've heard. (This cab is basically the wonderful cab that Don made for TBer 'Deb', with a tweeter added).
So, I switched my order to the identical spec, but with Surf Green tolexI've been in the cue for a while, so I'm hoping in about 6 weeks!
Well, I'm the lucky owner of this cabinet (with a second on one the way)! I used it at a rehearsal last night (instrumental trio, jazz/rock, fairly loud). I used a ShuttleMax 12.0 to power the cabinet. I had the mid-range pad on the speaker set at about 11:00 o'clock and the tweeter at 9:00 o"clock. I usually use NeoX112Ts, so they are my point of reference. I played an MTD 635 (Zebrawood on Mahogany, wenge/wenge) and a Fender Custom Shop V active. A few observations:
The 12/6/1 has *huge* lows without being boomy. It does take a lot of power to push it, and I was surprised how much I had to turn up the gain and master volume (realizing that the position of the volume knobs don't mean much), but I think the SM 12.0 has enough power to make the 12/6/1s "speak".
Don told me during the build process that I would have to revamp my EQ settings with this cabinet. He is correct.
The MTD 635 sounded wonderful. The bass and the amp were set pretty much flat, with just a small attenuation on the SM 12.0 in the 1-2 kHz range. The MTD sounded clear throughout its range. Chords were clear and not muddy at all, and when I dialed in a bit of 250 hz mids on the bass, it really punched.
The Jazz Bass I was not as pleased with. There was a lot of mid range or upper mid range "buzz" like a swarm of bumble bees
I have a feeling that my Sadowsky RV4 will give me results similar to the Jazz, but that's for next week.
The fit and finish on this cabinet is very nice, with a sturdy professional overall look. It's a little heavier than I had hoped (the NeoX112Ts at 10 pounds lighter are much easier to carry).
I am *very* pleased with this cabinet given my tone goals, and will be even more pleased as I learn how set the EQ. Don does great work and has been a pleasure to work with.
Thanks!
Bob
It is a beauty. And yes, these cabs are quite different sounding from a more typical two way cab, or even the other 3 way executions like the Acme's or Accugrooves.
I also agree that these cabs (at least the three way versions) just seem made for an MTD type instrument (i.e., clean, wide, pure soapbar loaded active instruments), versus a J Bass type instrument that IMO really needs that upper mid breakup coming from the top of the driver to sound like what we are all used to hearing on classic recordings, etc.
Two should just kill with that Shuttle Max!
Stop it!
You guys know I just got a 535, and are piling on, on purpose, right
Yep, we're just stirring Chef's pot!
Mr. Oatman is already done with one of my 15/6s. He's now working on the second. He is really in favor of tube ports, so I asked him for a design that had the same port volume as the fEarfuls, but in tube port form. His response was one with 3 ports, a bit larger than the normal ones. I can't wait, this is going to be fun
I've been in the cue for a while, so I'm hoping in about 6 weeks!
Good luck with that...
I'm in week 12 on an order quoted at 8 weeks, and (as far as I know) he still hasn't started it. Last email conversation had him starting it about ten days after the email - and that was almost 20 days ago and I still haven't heard anything.
So either he started without calling me, or his estimates of starting and completion dates are derived by flipping coins... hopefully the former, because I'd really like to start using the thing sometime soon.
I have no inside info, and just guessed on the 6 weeks. He is running a bit behind (as has been posted before), but rapidly catching up. I'm sure yours will be done soon. He's been making a lot of progress over the last four weeks or so.
I know I won't see mine before he is back to 8 weeks or so for everyone.
Yeah, I'm still patiently waiting on my 3015 HO's myself. Don's running behind but he's still quicker than most custom cab builders and lightning fast compared to my gunsmith.
Hopefully... but at the rate it's going I'm guessing it'll end up at least in the 14-16 week range on an 8 week quote... and that is under the assumption that he already started it without calling me. If it isn't started yet? Who knows.
Thankfully, I suspected it was going to take awhile and don't need the cab to get by. That is just how custom stuff seems to go in certain fields.
I think it's pretty obvious Don needs to work on his scheduling estimations a bit though... if I were that far off on delivery dates (and we're designing and building fully custom stuff also, just WAY more complicated stuff), my bosses would can me and our customers would no longer be our customers.
+1 He is working very hard and very concerned about his timing. He is a grumpy gus at the moment... we haven't had lunch for a long time. However, as those who have received their cabs know, he is not just slopping them out. However, he is burning the midnight oil to get caught up.
I'm not associated with the company in any way (other than Don and I are neighbors and friends) so he doesn't share business details with me. However, he has said he is very aware of the delay in the orders that were put in a couple of months ago (as things got VERY busy), and is cranking to get caught up.
Hopefully, he has yours started. If you PM me with your name, I'll be glad to specifically ask him for your cab status next time we talk (we usually at least chat for a minute or two on the phone every week).
As someone who has personally got myself caught in similar positions in the past - I can definitely understand the grumpiness. It's a real irritant when it happens to you.
+1. However, still not a valid excuse to an individual customer. Hopefully, it won't be too much longer and he will be back to his more typical 6-8 weeks soon.
Don's whole thing is based on doing pure custom design cabs, by himself. There are many of us who have talked to him about picking a few of his favorite designs (he's always had a love of cabs with mid drivers, and also multiple 8" loaded cabs) and standardizing them so that he can outsource at least some of the work on a few 'popular' designs.
To his credit, he just doesn't have the love for doing the same thing over and over, and would rather work much smaller volumes on a custom basis. That unfortunately can lead to a number of production issues, from having a difficult time stocking components (which puts you in supply trouble when you all of a sudden have to order fifteen 3015LF's from your wholesaler versus the typical one or two), to just pure 'not enough hours in the day'.
Anyway, he is PAINFULLY aware of the delays with a number of his customers, and carefully weighs the difficult balance of working to get 'em done versus taking calls during the day, etc. It is a bit of an ugly sandwich, but he is positive (from our latest discussion) that he is rapidly getting back on track (even though the promised delivery times on recently ordered cabs is longer than he would like).
Whew! Enough of that. The topic interests me since I am also a one person business who sometimes (like today) sits with nothing to do, and other times has to work overnighters and still sometimes be late on delivery
LilRay
Commercial User
- Dec 27, 2007
- 4,166
- 39
- Disclosures
- Owner: Cockeyed Cow Custom Leathercraft
I don't know Don other than from what I've read on TB but I will say this; AFAIK Don is very "small" with his shop. I don't know if he has any employees.
As far as the scheduling estimation, My Pop runs a very small Construction (Roofing) business. He's been up to a year behind original "scheduling estimates" however everyone knows he's "small" and his reputation is impeccable. He's never "lost" a Customer in nearly 40 years.
The same should hold for Don, as far as I know he also has an impeccable reputation and I'd rather he be months behind than to be ready to knock something out ASAP. That in and of itself is telling of his product and his ethics.
I Don't know if your upset at Don or just concerned, but there's another "custom cabinet manufacturer" that hasn't built products paid for a few years ago.
IMO You are coming off in a "badmouthing" manner. If it were me, I'd Ask what the issue is before I "complained".
My opinion only.
God Bless, Ray
Just him...
I'd say he's lucky.
If you tell me the wait is a year, and I think it's worth it - I'll wait.
If you tell the wait is a month, and it's a year - I don't care how good you are.
Now if it happens for unforeseen reasons, it happens. But if you're constantly a year behind - then you're just lying to your customers with your scheduling estimates, and I find that extremely unprofessional.
Yes, but you're setting up a false dichotomy. It's not like the only possibility is "months behind" or "put out junk"
How about the middle option? Take as long as it takes to do a quality job, but give out realistic completion estimates.
Yeah, I wouldn't even call those guys "cabinet makers" I'd call them "fraudulent criminals" - and honestly I can't believe folks AREN'T suing the ever loving pants off those folks.
As far as upset with Don - nah, just a bit disappointed. As I would be in any business in a similar situation, and as my customers would be were I similarly late on a delivery.
Not badmouthing, just laying out reality. As they say in libel/slander cases... the truth is an absolute defense.
...and I know what the issue is - Don over committed on delivery and got behind. It happens to every business on occasion, and I've been there myself. I'm just laying out some realistic timelines for anyone considering actually placing an order.
Based on my dealing with him - standardization and farming it out isn't what he needs.
A business person is what he needs, so he can just build cabinets and let someone else take orders/respond to emails/answer phones/order components/make the coffee/do scheduling estimation/deal with vendors/etc...
Like most craftsmen/people who start small businesses -he seems to be absolutely wonderful at the meat and potatoes building, but not so great at the nagging business details that have nothing at all to do with speaker cabinets.
LilRay
Commercial User
- Dec 27, 2007
- 4,166
- 39
- Disclosures
- Owner: Cockeyed Cow Custom Leathercraft
As far as my Pop is concerned weather plays a huge role in getting "farther behind". In other words sometimes he gets into a situation where he tells someone "with good weather I can be here in 6 weeks" and at times due to weather that 6 weeks turns into 12 weeks. People have gotten concerned and called but have yet to choose someone else. It's not neccessarily luck, but good service.
Wasn't trying to imply that those were the only options, I merely mentioned that the fact that Don was "busy" stood well for him. I didn't delve that far into the thought that my statement would indicate "putting out junk" could be interpreted from what I said.
Some are actually.
You're a stand up guy, and I agree with all above. The truth of the matter is, when you're a "one man show" you could get overzealous with estimations in attempts to gain customers. That's totally understandable IMO. As long as the 8 week estimate didn't turn into a year.
God Bless, Ray
Well, I placed my order for a couple 112s in Feb and its near the 3rd week of April. I emailed him a few weeks ago and he said he hasnt started my cabs yet. I do have my 15/6 to use but there are many situations where I would rather have been using 2 112s. The drivers on one of my UL112 is blown so I cant use those.
At any rate, I can wait but it is a little frustrating. If he said the wait time will be 3 to 4 months I still would have placed the order. I think he needs to tell customers more accurate wait times. Even just for his own health and sanity... I mean it can be fun working like a dog constantly.
At any rate, I can wait but it is a little frustrating. If he said the wait time will be 3 to 4 months I still would have placed the order. I think he needs to tell customers more accurate wait times. Even just for his own health and sanity... I mean it can be fun working like a dog constantly.
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