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Low drama hobby bands - share your tips
- Thread starter alex1fly
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deepestend
Commercial User
- Feb 21, 2003
- 6,249
- 8,171
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On the other hand... sometimes it's better if the spouse isn't really interested. My wife goes the gigs and is supportive but she kind of lets it be my thing. She's not undermining it in any way, but whether or not she LOVES it or the other band members doesn't really matter to either of us because it's my thing in the end.
"Involving the spouses" does not mean, IMO, inviting them into the inner sanctum to make decisions. When done right, it means investing them in the fun of the thing, by helping them to feel welcome at shows, enlisting them to do important side jobs like working the merch table, etc. etc.
My husband was briefly with one group who had T-shirts made up for all the wives and treated them like a little club; they even had a club name that was similar to the band name. They'd usually go to shows and sit together.
Other bands I've been in have social gatherings where all of the spouses and their bandmate SOs step up to provide food or other important items so that the band can get out of music mode for a bit and just do the hang with everyone. There are lots of ways to make it fun for the spouses, and if the spouses are having fun they are a lot less likely to attempt to get involved in less productive ways.
On the other side of that coin, one band member had a spouse who just couldn't hang and was insecure to the point at which she didn't want him playing shows more than once a month. That's the kind of situation where one spouse is essentially dictating the band's schedule. He was a founding member but she also kept him from having much personal practice time and that was what sealed his eventual fate, as it became painful to do shows with him.
My husband was briefly with one group who had T-shirts made up for all the wives and treated them like a little club; they even had a club name that was similar to the band name. They'd usually go to shows and sit together.
Other bands I've been in have social gatherings where all of the spouses and their bandmate SOs step up to provide food or other important items so that the band can get out of music mode for a bit and just do the hang with everyone. There are lots of ways to make it fun for the spouses, and if the spouses are having fun they are a lot less likely to attempt to get involved in less productive ways.
On the other side of that coin, one band member had a spouse who just couldn't hang and was insecure to the point at which she didn't want him playing shows more than once a month. That's the kind of situation where one spouse is essentially dictating the band's schedule. He was a founding member but she also kept him from having much personal practice time and that was what sealed his eventual fate, as it became painful to do shows with him.
Maybe some of this has been covered maybe not....but here's my advice....start with the parameters of the band layed out, but remain flexible. If you want to cover 80's metal and play 2 times a month practice twice a week....lay that out as a foundation.
Develop a short list of 10-15 songs you would like to play, and use those for auditions.
It's far more important to find players that understand the gear they're using and have a good attitude, than it is to find the virtuoso.
The audition should consist of more than just playing...and a meeting at a coffee shop or bistro to interview them is great way to weed out some of the fluff.
Involve them into the development process...but don't overburden them.
Develop a short list of 10-15 songs you would like to play, and use those for auditions.
It's far more important to find players that understand the gear they're using and have a good attitude, than it is to find the virtuoso.
The audition should consist of more than just playing...and a meeting at a coffee shop or bistro to interview them is great way to weed out some of the fluff.
Involve them into the development process...but don't overburden them.
That's where I am as well. My wife and I share a lot of interests but we both have things that our own. Mine is music and specifically my band. My wife is not much of a live music fan and rarely sees me play but that's fine. The other band members wives come out to shows more often, but none of them has any input on what we do or when and where we do it. It's better that way, IMO.
Well, obviously you can't force someone to be interested and be a fan of the band, if that's not their thing. But for the ones who do come out, it's nice to offer some sort of appreciation. Again, nobody needs to be involved in any decision making or musical advice, but for them to feel welcome and a part of something special is kind of nice. It adds to the fun, overall.
deepestend
Commercial User
- Feb 21, 2003
- 6,249
- 8,171
- Disclosures
- Website and Social Media at Sadowsky
Also, things can change in interesting ways. One of our guitarists always played fine, but prob overmedicated a little with weed/rum. Now he's decided to cool that down for a while and he's more engaged and playing better than ever before. I'm trying not to call too much attention to it so that he's not feeling pressure, but it's a really good thing.
Set expections at the beginning. If someone is overstepping, voice your concerns or stand up for yourself. Be prepared to leave the band or fire the offending band mate.
If you are expecting any kind of revenue it would be good to establish a company or LLC to form a business structure. Also draw up an operating agreement for your business. It doesn't have to be an exhaustive document but should cover general situations. This should keep the drama kings and queens away. It also shows prospective new band mates that you are serious.
Just because you don't want to play out doesn't mean you won't ever make money. Your band could record music and distribute that. Monetize a youtube or Instagram account.
If you are expecting any kind of revenue it would be good to establish a company or LLC to form a business structure. Also draw up an operating agreement for your business. It doesn't have to be an exhaustive document but should cover general situations. This should keep the drama kings and queens away. It also shows prospective new band mates that you are serious.
Just because you don't want to play out doesn't mean you won't ever make money. Your band could record music and distribute that. Monetize a youtube or Instagram account.
Or scare them off! I played with a few guys twice and the BL/organizer started sending stuff like partnership agreements around before the third get together. Not rehearsal since it wasn't even that far along. Just feeling each other out. The singer had some "originals" that the BL thought they should help "protect". The whole thing was a cart before the horse CF and I bailed when we were so legally serious, they couldn't sort out between Saturday and Sunday getting together.
Skipped to the end. I can not stress enough the important of heavily investigating by interview, the persons interests in the band.
And even then, musicians being a flaky lot, some of them will lie, or deny, etc....
"We only want to gig once a month" - and they are saying "Cool, that's a great schedule, me too!" But inside, secretly, they are going "This band is awesome, I get them to come around and we'll be hitting spots weekly in no time!!!" Or "They won't mind slipping a Metallica tune in here or there. I'll start with something soft like Nothing Else Matters. Then Battery!"
And even then, musicians being a flaky lot, some of them will lie, or deny, etc....
"We only want to gig once a month" - and they are saying "Cool, that's a great schedule, me too!" But inside, secretly, they are going "This band is awesome, I get them to come around and we'll be hitting spots weekly in no time!!!" Or "They won't mind slipping a Metallica tune in here or there. I'll start with something soft like Nothing Else Matters. Then Battery!"
If a band is having partnership agreements it sounds more serious than a hobby band. Just what is a hobby band for the purposes of this thread?
Quit the band or fire somebody seems to be the standard solutions voiced. How about working to resolve the problem?
Even a hobby band can make money. A partnership agreement might help to keep the drama babies away.
Voicing your concerns is the initial step to resolving the issue. If the offending band mate is unwilling to work towards a resolution, why would you want to keep that person around? If the band is unwilling to support any valid concerns and address them tonthe offending member, why would you want to remain in a stressful environment?
I say, before the project gets too far down the road, have the "business" talk. I'd rather know up front than after I put 6 months in. We are 5 months in and have had the business talk and are putting the business structure and operating agreement in place. You don't want to play the first gig only to find out you owe the venue money because the guitarist opened up a band bar tab and racked up hundreds of dollars. Or the drummer got butt hurt because he thought he was going to get the entire gig pay to buy a new snare drum.
If you know and trust your bandmates,a verbal agreement might work. If you're working on original material you just might want to put some prorections in place. I'm new to this music scene but I have read, heard and experienced enough to know it is a dog eat dog business full of backstabbers, thieves and immature babies. I'm not yelling at you, hope you don't get that impression, but with shared assets, intellectual property and egos to deal with a little bit of protection is smart business.
Because we don't live in a world where all our problems are either/or.
Sometimes the solution is to compromise, because everyone is likely going to be giving up a little piece of what they want in order to make the situation workable for all. Not all problems involve bandmates unwilling to work toward a resolution.
But yes, in the extreme case where someone's behaving like a six-year-old and having a tantrum, you need to let them go.
As far as a partnership agreement goes, to me that signals a level of self-importance at the hobby level that I would want nothing to do with.
If hobby bands make money, they're sure not making enough to warrant that sort of preparation, and I've never in my life been asked to sign onto such an agreement. I've been in lots of bands.
So that would seem extreme and would also indicate to me that whoever is proposing it has aspirations around money that they may not be fully upfront about and that are at best unrealistic. It's also a good indication that I'll be pushed to do work for money that I'm not interested in doing, because it shows me that money is the most important thing to that person. Been there, done that, not interested in playing in 110* weather outside because someone is offering the band $1000, and I don't care how much pressure you put on me to play that show. Find someone else. There's someone else who will do that gig.
That is fine for others, maybe, but I don't have unrealistic expectations surrounding the earning potential of a hobby band. Here's how hobby bands work: Four people in the band means a four way split of the take. If someone's doing an inordinate amount of extra work, split out an agreed upon percentage and compensate that person, then split the rest four ways. Anything beyond that is overkill.
Forget the legalese. Nobody is suing a bandmate over hobby band money. A verbal understanding of how gig pay will be split is sufficient. If the BL reneges, remind them of the agreement and if that doesn't work, it's time to find a new band.
One think I will suggest, though, which is tangential to the financial agreement thing, is that if you're writing original music you do need to have clear lines around who owns the copyrights to that material.
This doesn't need to be any more formal than a copyright declaration with the names of the writers, at least until you get to a place where the possibility of making something on that material is realistic. Usually it's not, but you want to avoid the kind of fighting that can happen if you do end up in that place.
This doesn't need to be any more formal than a copyright declaration with the names of the writers, at least until you get to a place where the possibility of making something on that material is realistic. Usually it's not, but you want to avoid the kind of fighting that can happen if you do end up in that place.
The only goal I set up when advertising for band members around 4 years ago was to enjoy playing music once a week or so in my newly bought studio without any aim of gigging.
I pretty much hit the jackpot with a guitarist and singer who were keen on the same thing and who then brought in another vocalist and a violinist/vocalist. We're all pretty similar in terms of musical skill, personal temperament and music genre so it became a great way to spend a few hours each week learning new songs nearly all of which we all like.
My only concern was that we never ran songs enough to get them really tight. That was until some of the others started wanting to gig. The good side of this was setting out a list and getting those songs tight. The downside was me having to do a s**t ton of work each gig supplying and setting up the PA and mixing from stage. Recently we have gotten gigs at better venues that provide PA and a sound guy so I've been more relaxed about gigging.
We've gotten to the point that we're a pretty good band and there has still been no drama. Unfortunately the violinist moved towns last month and in November this year the lead singer, who has an amazing voice and stage presence, is moving to France. Oh well. We've had a good run and hopefully we'll be able to find some decent replacements.
As for picking material, I'd just set parameters and let the others pick from there.
*My* formula for picking covers to play out... and if you plan on not playing out, you might find that you will eventually, so...
It has to be/have been a popular song, instantly recognizable by almost everyone (there are zillions of them, no excuse to not be able to find plenty).
It has to be upbeat, dance, toe-tapper, or slow dance ballad, no “listening songs”.
If it turns out to be a variety of genres, imo that's a good thing,
but again, chose the parameters that fit your situation, then let others have input.
This is a good formula for a band that wants to gig regularly and earn some decent money...... that's not us.
When some of the others wanted to play out a bit I agreed to do an open mic night and we immediately got offered gigs.
We play what we like with probably over half the list being stuff from bands that most of our audience have never heard of. Our attitude was that if we don't get rebooked then "who cares". It turns out that a few venues really like what we play and lately we've been offered more gigs than we're prepared to play so we stick with simply learning songs we like and if others like it then great, if not, it doesn't bother us.
It sounds like you started out as a hobby band (get together once a week to play music never intending to gig) and then turned into a bar band. Makes a good point for everyone agreeing up front about what they want out of the musical collaboration.
I guess I have a different definition of hobby band.
Absolutely.
