Low tension flats - advice needed

[brstma]

I’ve used labella tape wounds on my fretless for a couple years then tried the LTFs. Ended up switching back to tape wound pretty quickly.

the tape wound have way less tension and I like the sound better on my fretless. I had to tighten the truss rod a lot for the LTF and loosen it again for the tapes.

Never tried either on a fretted bass though.

 

[BOOG]

Yep, definitely going to be a need for relief adjustments. Be PATIENT with it and no more than 1/8-1/4 turn/>6hr. I have had a couple necks that took more than a week to settle in.

 

[rojo412]

I literally just installed a set of LaBella Low Tension Flats on a bass, 20 minutes ago, hoping they would not only compare to the TIs, but also reduce the tension on the neck, compared to the strings previously on it...

They don't come close in feel to the TI Jazz Flats. While they are low-ER tension than what I'd call your typical flat, they aren't remotely close to the feel and tension of JFs. They are like roundwound feel for tension, with a super smooth flat coating, if that makes sense.

TIs are legendary for a reason, I guess. Unfortunately, a nickel allergy prevents me using them with regularity on my own basses. But if they made a stainless version with the same feel/tension, I'd plunk down that huge amount because there is DEFINITELY something to be said for how they respond, compared to pretty much every other string on the market.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I literally just installed a set of LaBella Low Tension Flats on a bass, 20 minutes ago, hoping they would not only compare to the TIs, but also reduce the tension on the neck, compared to the strings previously on it...

They don't come close in feel to the TI Jazz Flats. While they are low-ER tension than what I'd call your typical flat, they aren't remotely close to the feel and tension of JFs. They are like roundwound feel for tension, with a super smooth flat coating, if that makes sense.

TIs are legendary for a reason, I guess. Unfortunately, a nickel allergy prevents me using them with regularity on my own basses. But if they made a stainless version with the same feel/tension, I'd plunk down that huge amount because there is DEFINITELY something to be said for how they respond, compared to pretty much every other string on the market.

Look into Dogal Jaco System flats.

 

[brian579]

Hello, everyone

I currently use la bella flats, and I'm willing to switch to low tension strings (in need of some rest for my fingers).

Question #1: would that change affect my action height?

Question #2: tension wise, how would tape wound strings (I have la bella's nylon tapes here) compare to la bella regular flats and la bella low tension flats?

Thanks!

Get TIs! Expensive, but worth every penny. Low tension, game changers.

 

[rwkeating]

I went from LTF to Labella white nylon (regular gauge) and the white's feel like they have lower tension that the LTFs. I don't know what the number say though.

The reason I made the move was because on my bass the LTF B string didn't play well with the others. Now with the whites, the string to string sound is more balanced.

 

[Just Wrong]

I literally just installed a set of LaBella Low Tension Flats on a bass, 20 minutes ago, hoping they would not only compare to the TIs, but also reduce the tension on the neck, compared to the strings previously on it...

They don't come close in feel to the TI Jazz Flats. While they are low-ER tension than what I'd call your typical flat, they aren't remotely close to the feel and tension of JFs. They are like roundwound feel for tension, with a super smooth flat coating, if that makes sense.

TIs are legendary for a reason, I guess. Unfortunately, a nickel allergy prevents me using them with regularity on my own basses. But if they made a stainless version with the same feel/tension, I'd plunk down that huge amount because there is DEFINITELY something to be said for how they respond, compared to pretty much every other string on the market.

This.

Tapes will have less tension than flats, but sound nothing like flats, even D'Addario's flat tapes. Also, buzz city (depending on your bass).

 

[80jazz]

If finger rest is a concern, I would advise a lighter gauge as well.

Good luck.

 

[Mastermold]

I literally just installed a set of LaBella Low Tension Flats on a bass, 20 minutes ago, hoping they would not only compare to the TIs, but also reduce the tension on the neck, compared to the strings previously on it...

They don't come close in feel to the TI Jazz Flats. While they are low-ER tension than what I'd call your typical flat, they aren't remotely close to the feel and tension of JFs. They are like roundwound feel for tension, with a super smooth flat coating, if that makes sense.

TIs are legendary for a reason, I guess. Unfortunately, a nickel allergy prevents me using them with regularity on my own basses. But if they made a stainless version with the same feel/tension, I'd plunk down that huge amount because there is DEFINITELY something to be said for how they respond, compared to pretty much every other string on the market.

TI Flats are great and I have them on a bunch of basses, but don't give up on the La Bella LTFs too quickly. I put a set on a P-bass about a year ago and have been really enjoying them. They break in nicely and have a unique tonal quality to them, not like TI but not like La Bella DTFs either. You may decided you like them over time.

 

[GIBrat51]

Hello, everyone

I currently use la bella flats, and I'm willing to switch to low tension strings (in need of some rest for my fingers).

Question #1: would that change affect my action height?

Question #2: tension wise, how would tape wound strings (I have la bella's nylon tapes here) compare to la bella regular flats and la bella low tension flats?

Thanks!

Well, it kinda depends on your definition of "Tension". Are you talking about actual tension; ie, pounds-of-pull needed to bring the strings to pitch? Or do you mean perceived tension; ie, the string's "stiffness"?
If you mean actual tension, then the low tension champs are (from lowest to highest - but, nowhere near your La Bella's tension):
1. Dogal Jaco Carbonsteel Flats. Somehow, Dogal managed to make playable flats with a tension of 5kg. per string. Which equates to a total tension for a 4-string set, of only 55 lbs. And, they are also about as non-stiff a set of flats as you could possibly want. They do sound great, though - if you want flats with not much low end; lots of low-mids and mids; and really sweet sounding highs. Not sure if they're exactly what I want on one of my Dano DC59s, but... they can always find a new home.
2. La Bella Deep Talkin' Flexible Flats. Total tension of 136 lbs. and change. But, they are engineered so that you'd never know it; they're less stiff than your current strings, but nowhere near what anyone would call really flexible. To my fingers? Pretty much like any other light gauge flat, but - they're bridge cables, compared to the Dogal Jacos. They do have most of the low end you're used to, though...
3. TI Jazz Flats. At 142.6 lbs. per set, the tension is slightly higher than the La Bella DTFFs. But, while the flexibility is - to my fingers - noticeably less than the Dogal Jacos? Stiff they definitely are not. They are the most expensive of the 3, though, and mine took a very long time to break in, too. And the tone was pretty inconsistent until they did. But... yes, TI's are worth the trouble, IMO. I can't imagine anything else working as well on the bass I have them on, but... for some things I play, they're much too midrange-y; and that just doesn't work well, sometimes...
As for all the other flats? The actual tension will be higher than these 3, but if you stick to gauges in the 40-100 range, there are some that are pretty flexible. Fender 9050Ls; Optima 4440 RBs (their 4099 "Chromes are a little stiffer); Dogal R44s: and, if you can find a set (the long scales are no longer listed), the La Bella 760FXs are pretty flexible, too. For flats, smaller gauges and a round core are the cure for stiff strings...
Regarding your bass's setup? If you go from la Bella DTFs to, say, TIJFs, you will definitely have to do a setup, and yes; most things will change. You should at least check your bass' set up if you switch to different strings. actually, IMO you should check your setup, even if you just put on a new set of the strings you took off. And clean your fretboard, too, while the strings are off... And...
As for Tapewounds? They're almost always light gauge round wounds under the nylon, so the actual tension is pretty reasonable. The nylon is fairly inflexible, though, so in my limited experience with them, they did feel fairly stiff. To be fair, the medium scale Roto TruBass88 Tapes on one of my violin basses, are well known for that (people argue about them being flats under the nylon). And, the La Bella Black tapes I had on another bass, were the 4 heavy strings from a 5-string set - strung BEAD. Those didn't stay around very long (the B string was a lot more flexible than the other 3), but that violin bass has worn the Rotos for... well, a very long time... In any case, lots of people really like tapes, and they come in lots of flavors. You might like them, too...

 

[Lo-E]

There are quite a few options for "lower tension" flats. If you like the overall sound of the 760FS, you can either try the 760FX (39-96, hex core) or the Low Tension Flats (42-100, round core).

TI Jazz Flats (43-100), Dunlop Flats 40-100 and Ernie Ball Group IV (40-95) stainless steel flats are all "lower tension" options, but with different tonal flavors. I personally use the EB Group IV flats on my P bass and like them for their comfortable feel without ever feeling too loose or floppy. (I got two sets of EB Grp IV for $30 USD each. )

This and the above post from @GIBrat51 are so comprehensive, I can think of little I could add other than that Pyramid Gold flats are also reasonably low tension.

I, too, like the Ernie Ball Group IV flats a lot and use them on P-basses while I prefer TI Jazz Flats on Jazz basses and my fretless Rickenbacker. The EBs are thumpier and work great (to my ear) with the pronounced mids of a P-bass. The TIs are very mid-heavy and work well with the natural scoop of a J-bass. My ear would probably like the EBs better on the Rickenbacker but I just love how the TIs feel on that bass so they're staying where they are!

TI Flats are very flexible and not everybody likes the way they feel but they last nearly forever so if you hate them you could sell them here on TB and recoup some of your investment and I doubt they would take long to sell. They also sound almost mid-way between flats and rounds and not everyone likes that about them, either. You should consider that going in since they're so expensive. They're very popular, but that doesn't mean they're for you.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Dogal Jaco Carbonsteel Flats. Somehow, Dogal managed to make playable flats with a tension of 5kg. per string. Which equates to a total tension for a 4-string set, of only 55 lbs.

As I tried (and, to another poster there, failed) to explain in another thread, this cannot possibly be what's going on there. Having 11-12lbs of tension per string would be literally like taking one of your long-scale basses and tuning it one octave down. Or like taking off three of the strings, leaving only the D. Playing feel aside, it would be pretty much the same from a pull-on-neck standpoint. So, unless you had noticeable backbow right after installing the Dogal Jacos and had to perform some radical truss-rod correction, no they don't have so little a tension at pitch.
"At pitch" being the operative words here.
Their copy does say something to the effect of "these strings achieve true pitch with as little as 5 kilos of tension". However, their "true pitch" verbiage doesn't necessarily - nor can it really, as I said, or your neck would inevitably show - mean "concert pitch"/"standard tuning". My best interpretation of it (failing the other, let me reiterate) is that, applying 5 kilos per string, you do *not* get standard tuning, but you already get a steady, not wobbly pitch. In other words, already at 5 kilos tension (and somewhere between E0 and G0 pitch, for the low E) they are above what I've been calling "sproing point".
Which is impressive in itself, mind you. Steel strings, unless they have thin cores like 6-string guitar strings have (or they are themselves thin plains), are sproingy as all getout at 12 pounds' tension, even with a light touch. So these Dogals have thin, flexible cores and overall construction that makes them behave closer to ropecore or nyloncore strings. Which, beyond their behaviour at 5kgs ( = at contrabass pitches, for the low E), probably translates to less inharmonicity, better tone past the 12th fret, a very soft feel, this kind of thing. And yes, I do believe they also have low tension proper.
...Just not 5 kilos tension when one tunes all the way up to E1-A1-D2-G2 tuning, though.

 

[GIBrat51]

Well, All I can say, is that when I replaced the Fender 9050Ls on that Dano DC59 with the 38-96 JC106As, they came up to pitch (E1-A1-D2-G2, according to my Peterson Model VS-F "Strobo Flip" orchestral tuner) with far fewer turns of the tuner posts - almost as soon as they started to tighten, actually - than any other strings I've ever used - on any bass I've ever owned. And, yes; I had to do a major setup on that bass, to get it playable again. Which tells me, that they have a lot less tension than the 9050Ls. And, 39-96 is a pretty light gauge for bass strings, anyway. As for what they use as a core? A very thin, woven wire one, perhaps? Orchestral strings sometimes use those, from what I understand - and Dogal has been making those, for far longer than they've made electric bass/guitar strings. I don't have a strain gauge handy - or a test rig; and I've been retired from testing labs for a long time. So I can't say for certain what the actual, measured tension of those strings is. But, based on a lot of experience with other flat wound bass strings? Yeah, even though I'm playing the things, it is kind of hard to believe. But, I'm not going to dismiss their claim out of hand, either... And they are - by far - the most flexible strings - bass, guitar, rounds or flats - that I've ever used...

 

[HaphAsSard]

As for what they use as a core? A woven one, perhaps?

Not for the Jacos, since they say they do for the new Hellborgs.

I'm not going to dismiss their claim out of hand, either...

Neither am/have I. I'm suggesting that that actually isn't their claim - something went lost in translation. I'm far from infallible, though, and I might be wrong in this instance too.

 

[Thebiggestjerk]

Hello, everyone

I currently use la bella flats, and I'm willing to switch to low tension strings (in need of some rest for my fingers).

Question #1: would that change affect my action height?

Question #2: tension wise, how would tape wound strings (I have la bella's nylon tapes here) compare to la bella regular flats and la bella low tension flats?

Thanks!

Yes.

 

[Yahboy]

Q1 : Truss rod adjustment are necessary if you are from DTF760FL/FX to LTF4A. You need measure your current neck relief and bookmark it before string swap. Once you spot the same neck relief amount, most the time the Action won't change much. Except you install thicker nylon tape or Jamerson set, and you could be need to file the nut slot too....

Q2 : Copper white Labella nylon has quite similar tension to LTF4A, but different stiffness and plucking feel.

I have LTF4A on my Squier P bass and Ti flat on Vintera P. Both comfort tension and i got 2 different voice.

Win-Win solution. !

 

[Yahboy]

I’ve used labella tape wounds on my fretless for a couple years then tried the LTFs. Ended up switching back to tape wound pretty quickly.

the tape wound have way less tension and I like the sound better on my fretless. I had to tighten the truss rod a lot for the LTF and loosen it again for the tapes.

Never tried either on a fretted bass though.

Agree that tape wound sound and work better on fretless bass.

 

[rojo412]

don't give up on the La Bella LTFs too quickly. I put a set on a P-bass about a year ago and have been really enjoying them. They break in nicely and have a unique tonal quality to them, not like TI but not like La Bella DTFs either. You may decided you like them over time.

At the price they are, I certainly don't intend to scrap them at all. And I do expect some break in. Plus, I can only imagine how well they will sound with the full rig.
It was just a matter of "expectation not meeting reality." I knew TIs from many experiences. I was thinking they'd be somewhat similar in feel. But they are definitely a different feel.
I just had DR Legend Lights on a bass and it was great. They were far more comfortable than the Chromes which they replaced. But these LTFs aren't much softer in feel at all - at least with the cursory playing I've done with them today.

And unless they break in and soften up (which I've yet to ever experience on any strings), I'd say to anyone looking to spend far less on LTFs than TIs with the hopes that they are the same feel: THEY ARE NOT.
Not a bad thing, but I kinda wish I knew that beforehand, as that is what I was hoping for, personally.

The Dogals seem interesting though, looking into that as a possible future step. I assume "carbon steel" means that there is no nickel involved?

 

[Jack Butler]

TI Jazz Flats.
Thread solved. The feel and tone, last 10X longer.

Or burn through a dozen other sets and end up there later. Either way.

I like TI's much better than the low tension Flat Labellas. That said TI's are not for everyone. I love them, but I slightly prefer the Cbalt Flat 40's.

 

[Jack Butler]

I use and highly recommend Labella LTF's. I've wanted to try the the TI's but I play fivers and that's a lot of dough to plunk down on something I might not like.

They are quite different though. I know people like to compare them but I'm no audiophile and have no trouble telling them apart. I prefer the TI's, but it's personal preference really.