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Low tension flats - advice needed
- Thread starter Erick Moraes
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- low tension strings
No one's talking about the tapewound option much, so I'll recommend D'Addario tapes. They have the sound of flats but with a little extra snap in the attack when your tone is wide open. They're also very low tension and smooth as glass - very easy to play. I have a set of them on my MIJ P-bass copy, and the sound is actually pretty close to my Epi Jack Casady with TI flats. Here are a couple recent recordings for comparison:
P-bass with D'A tapes (picked)
P-bass with D'A tapes (fingerstyle)
Epi Jack Casady with TI flats (fingerstyle)
P-bass with D'A tapes (picked)
P-bass with D'A tapes (fingerstyle)
Epi Jack Casady with TI flats (fingerstyle)
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I just put a set of Dogal Hellborg rounds on a fretless 5 after using nothing but TI Jazz Flats on any of my basses for a couple decades; TI flats are still my favorite.
The Hellborg rounds are even more flexible than TI flats, and allow me to play with more nuance than stiffer strings; I wouldn't be surprised if the Hellborg flats have similar virtues, but I haven't tried them yet.
One disadvantage of Helborgs compared to TI Flats, from my perspective, is that they have less "punch" at the same volume and the rounds sound "fuzzier" and less focused than TI flats IMHO.
D
I think it's worth noting that if you just want lower tension flats you can simply get lighter gauges of ANY type of flats, including the LaBellas you're currently using. Even the marginally lighter 760FL set (43-104) feels much nicer to me than the 760FS set (45-105). Better balanced, more "bouncy" feel.
Of course, when we're talking about "low tension flats" we're usually not just thinking about tension but about stiffness and "feel" as well. The strings we typically refer to as "low tension flats" will typically have round cores, which give them a more supple feel in addition to actual lower tension.
My favourite low tension, round core flats are TI Jazz Flats. Very "organic" tone, much better sustain than other flats, better mid presence than other flats, superb articulation, very balanced tone, nice highs but no "zing". They are totally useless if you want that "old school" thumpy flats vibe though (like the LaBellas you're currently using). These are "modern" flats.
My second choice for low tension, round core flats would probably be Optima RB flats, although I had some issues with fret buzz with them on some basses because they were TOO flexible and vibrated with a HUGE amplitude on some notes. The Optima RB are reissues of the Maxima strings that Rickenbackers were factory equipped with "back in the day". These are very much in the "old school" category of flats but with better articulation and a considerably more supple feel than most.
LaBella Low Tension Flats are also an option. I only tried them briefly and never quite bonded with them. They felt stiffer and less articulate to me than the TIJFs and Optima RBs. These are stainless steel so quite different to the TIs/Optimas which are nickel (the TIs are probably some kind of nickel "superalloy" similar to what GHS refer to as Alloy 52). But I should probably have given these LaBellas more time. Lots of people love them.
To answer your actual question:
Yes, you will need a full setup when going from LaBella DTF 45-105 to low tension flats. The truss rod will almost certainly need to be loosened, the intonation will need to be adjusted and you may also need to raise the saddles a bit to avoid fret buzz (depending on your playing style). In some cases you may also need a new nut or file the existing nut slots if this is possible without going too low. If not the lighter gauge strings may cause buzzing in the nut slots. Especially if we're talking about a Fender-style bass without a string retainer for the A-string. The poor break angle over the nut on the A-string on Fender basses make them extremely susceptible to buzzing unless the nut slots are perfectly filed for the strings you're using.
Also, make sure you know how to install round core strings or you could end up with a very expensive pile of scrap metal.
Tape wounds will usually have lower tension than any other kind of strings, including low tension flats. They're VERY light gauge strings inside the nylon wrapping. They're usually roundwounds although I believe GHS tapewounds are actually flats inside the nylon wrapping? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Tapewounds have always felt a bit too floppy and "clacky" for my taste but lots of people like them.
Of course, when we're talking about "low tension flats" we're usually not just thinking about tension but about stiffness and "feel" as well. The strings we typically refer to as "low tension flats" will typically have round cores, which give them a more supple feel in addition to actual lower tension.
My favourite low tension, round core flats are TI Jazz Flats. Very "organic" tone, much better sustain than other flats, better mid presence than other flats, superb articulation, very balanced tone, nice highs but no "zing". They are totally useless if you want that "old school" thumpy flats vibe though (like the LaBellas you're currently using). These are "modern" flats.
My second choice for low tension, round core flats would probably be Optima RB flats, although I had some issues with fret buzz with them on some basses because they were TOO flexible and vibrated with a HUGE amplitude on some notes. The Optima RB are reissues of the Maxima strings that Rickenbackers were factory equipped with "back in the day". These are very much in the "old school" category of flats but with better articulation and a considerably more supple feel than most.
LaBella Low Tension Flats are also an option. I only tried them briefly and never quite bonded with them. They felt stiffer and less articulate to me than the TIJFs and Optima RBs. These are stainless steel so quite different to the TIs/Optimas which are nickel (the TIs are probably some kind of nickel "superalloy" similar to what GHS refer to as Alloy 52). But I should probably have given these LaBellas more time. Lots of people love them.
To answer your actual question:
Yes, you will need a full setup when going from LaBella DTF 45-105 to low tension flats. The truss rod will almost certainly need to be loosened, the intonation will need to be adjusted and you may also need to raise the saddles a bit to avoid fret buzz (depending on your playing style). In some cases you may also need a new nut or file the existing nut slots if this is possible without going too low. If not the lighter gauge strings may cause buzzing in the nut slots. Especially if we're talking about a Fender-style bass without a string retainer for the A-string. The poor break angle over the nut on the A-string on Fender basses make them extremely susceptible to buzzing unless the nut slots are perfectly filed for the strings you're using.
Also, make sure you know how to install round core strings or you could end up with a very expensive pile of scrap metal.
Tape wounds will usually have lower tension than any other kind of strings, including low tension flats. They're VERY light gauge strings inside the nylon wrapping. They're usually roundwounds although I believe GHS tapewounds are actually flats inside the nylon wrapping? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Tapewounds have always felt a bit too floppy and "clacky" for my taste but lots of people like them.
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D
It doesn't really answer the OPs questions though... and not very good advice if the OP is looking for an old school, thumpy kind of flatwound tone, which the TIs are utterly useless for.
Great strings though, they're certainly one of my favourite flats. But they are also completely different to all other flats out there and not suitable at all if you want a more traditional flatwound vibe.
IMO, TI flats sound amazing but I found them too loose. Labella LTFs were a better string for me, but I’m currently using Sadowsky 40-100 and Labella 760FL, the Sads are a bit lighter and very nice strings.
That depends. If you're wanting low tension flats, and your intention is to play more gently (dig in less), then you probably want to shoot for the same string heights. But....if you are going to play just as hard, you'll need higher action for lower tension strings, because they will move more.
I do a lot of setups - this stuff is a bit more complicated than it appears at first.
Correction.
TI Jazz Flats and a foam mute for thud.
One set I didn't see mentioned that would be good are GHS Precision Flats. I used and liked the light set, they sound traditional with some thump and were still articulate. Something that may meet the needs of the OP.
D
The light set could definitely be an option. This is a good example of what I meant when I said ALL lighter gauge flats are in fact lower tension flats, not just the more flexible, supple, round core flats that we usually refer to as "low tension flats". It depends on whether you just want lower tension or lower tension AND the more supple/flexible "feel" of round core strings.
When you're starting out with LaBella 760FS there are LOTS of flats that would be lower tension without being what we normally refer to as "low tension flats" (including lighter gauges of the same type of LaBellas).
It also depends on whether the OP wants to retain the "old school" thumpy vibe of the LaBellas or want a more modern type of flats with more sustain and clarity. The GHS set you are referring to is very much in the old school category and in some ways quite similar to the LaBella Deep Talkin' Flats.
Thanks a lot, guys. It looks like I have many options now.
I've got to mention that: a) I do want an old school flat vibe, so TI may not be my first choice. b) The reason I want lower tension strings is because I wanna be able to play more gently, I want to have a light feel on my fingers.
Thanks again!
I've got to mention that: a) I do want an old school flat vibe, so TI may not be my first choice. b) The reason I want lower tension strings is because I wanna be able to play more gently, I want to have a light feel on my fingers.
Thanks again!
D
For an old school flats vibe the TIs shouldn't even be on your list. They're very nice strings but not even close to what you want.
If you want lower tension old school flats my suggestions would be lighter gauge LaBellas, lighter gauge GHS, or maybe Optima RB if you want more flexible round core flats that still retain the old school vibe.
Just play with a lighter touch and, there ya go.
Check out what Gary Willis has to say on that subject.Just play with a lighter touch and, there ya go.
Haha. The thing is, the problem is not with my plucking hand, but with my fretting hand.
Can't comment on tapes' tension although I have used them in the past.
I use TI Flats which are low tension. I raise my action up a smidge. With higher tension strings, I lower my action a smidge.
Action depends on how you play and how you want your bass notes to sound. Clean or clanky.
For TIs, my G string is 3/32 of an inch and the E is a micro less than 4/32"
But that is me. I don't know about you.
I use TI Flats which are low tension. I raise my action up a smidge. With higher tension strings, I lower my action a smidge.
Action depends on how you play and how you want your bass notes to sound. Clean or clanky.
For TIs, my G string is 3/32 of an inch and the E is a micro less than 4/32"
But that is me. I don't know about you.
Ahh! How low do you have the action set, and also very important, how low are the nut slots?
D
It could be worth mentioning that this MIGHT be a setup issue too. Heavier gauge, stiff flats can usually be set up with a considerably lower action than "low tension flats". A perfectly set up bass shouldn't be too hard on the fretting hand, even when using heavier gauge stiff flats. I almost gave up on the infamously stiff 45-150 Roto 77s until I realized how low I could set the action with these strings (and that includes filing the nut slots). The relief can also be set for an almost straight neck, which won't work AT ALL with lower tension flats. After a proper setup the Rotos are no harder on my fretting hand then any other 45-105 strings. When set up with a "normal" action/relief I couldn't play them. My fretting hand started hurting after 10 minutes. I tried a lighter gauge set but it didn't sound as good to me so I went back to the 45-105 set and tweaked the setup. They're now one of my favourite strings and I can play them all night.
Of course, lower tension flats will be easier on your fretting hand WITH THE SAME ACTION/RELIEF but they may buzz when digging in hard unless you raise the action and add more relief to the neck. If your intention is to play more softly it MIGHT work great without adjusting the action/relief though.
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Rotosound flats are some of the stiffest strings I've ever used. I despise the Tomastik so I refuse to pay well over $100 to find out "no I still hate these".
Tapes and Chromes. That's pretty much most of the stringsets I use these days.
It could be the bass? I have this hippie sandwich fretless "Albatross" which maintains high stuff tension no matter what I do. Lots of factors are in play...bridge, nut, neck itself.
Tapes and Chromes. That's pretty much most of the stringsets I use these days.
It could be the bass? I have this hippie sandwich fretless "Albatross" which maintains high stuff tension no matter what I do. Lots of factors are in play...bridge, nut, neck itself.
