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Low volume from PR410HLF

B

Bliff Curton 2

Supporting Member
Apr 5, 2022
279
332
#1
Howdy,

I just got a used Ampeg PR410HLF and a Carvin DCM1000 to power it.
I'm using an Ampeg SVT3PRO as a preamp.

So,
Bass -> SVT3PRO - D.I XLR out -> Carvin DCM - 1/4" speaker cable -> PR410

But the volume is quite low for what I am expecting.
My band's practice space has a Trace Eliot ELF going into a 1x15 and that's exponentially louder than this PR410

I tried seeking out more volume through EQ'ing, but that led to the speakers farting out, but not much more volume.
Granted, the walls rattle a bit from the low end, but even still, it's not loud. It's easy to talk over this volume with an indoor speaking voice.
No distortion, just, no real volume.

Could it be that I need to use a speakon cable to get the full power?
Am I under powering the cab? I have the carving power amp bridged mono at 4 ohm, so that's 1,000 watts at 4ohms going into a 4ohm cab rated at 600w

I'm scratching my head here and could use some wisdom.
Thanks
 
#2
Bliff Curton 2 said:
Howdy,

I just got a used Ampeg PR410HLF and a Carvin DCM1000 to power it.
I'm using an Ampeg SVT3PRO as a preamp.

So,
Bass -> SVT3PRO - D.I XLR out -> Carvin DCM - 1/4" speaker cable -> PR410

But the volume is quite low for what I am expecting.
My band's practice space has a Trace Eliot ELF going into a 1x15 and that's exponentially louder than this PR410

I tried seeking out more volume through EQ'ing, but that led to the speakers farting out, but not much more volume.
Granted, the walls rattle a bit from the low end, but even still, it's not loud. It's easy to talk over this volume with an indoor speaking voice.
No distortion, just, no real volume.

Could it be that I need to use a speakon cable to get the full power?
Am I under powering the cab? I have the carving power amp bridged mono at 4 ohm, so that's 1,000 watts at 4ohms going into a 4ohm cab rated at 600w

I'm scratching my head here and could use some wisdom.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Could you try the same amp with a different cab?
The same cab with different amp?
The SVT3PRO direct into the cab (without the Carvin)?
The Carvin direct into the cab (without the SVT3PRO)?
 
#3
Play through the Ampeg only.
As you said,
Bliff Curton 2 said:
My band's practice space has a Trace Eliot ELF going into a 1x15 and that's exponentially louder than this PR410
Click to expand...
proves you do not need all them "watts" to be loud. Or the extra gear to carry and hook up.


Bliff Curton 2 said:
Could it be that I need to use a speakon cable to get the full power?
Click to expand...
No, use the red binding posts. Speakon would be safer, but not needed.

If using the 1/4 phone plugs, you will not be getting bridge power. Set the amp off of bridge mode and you will have the regular power from which you are plugged into. That will be enough.

Actually, the Ampeg will put out more power than the Carvin.
Bliff Curton 2 said:
Am I under powering the cab? I have the carving power amp bridged mono at 4 ohm, so that's 1,000 watts at 4ohms going into a 4ohm cab rated at 600w
Click to expand...
No, you are likely to over power the cab, the amp sends the power or watts. Your cab is rated to receive around 600 before it burns the speakers up, it can easily be cooked in bridge mode.
 
#4
Sounds to me like you've got your "Z"s mixed up.

Run from the Ampeg 1/4" preamp out into the 1/4" input on the Carvin.

The Ampeg xlr out is balanced and meant to go into a preamp (mixing board etc.) then that boosted signal goes to the power amp.

What you're doing is akin to plugging a microphone directly into the Carvin… won't work. Impedence mismatch. Z Is not aligned.
 
Last edited:
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#7
Wow, thank you all for the great replies.

I will try these options out later.

I haven't used the SVT3PRO power section because I need to rebias the FETs.
I've had the DI out maxed but I will try the 1/4" out into the car in power amp and see if that's a louder signal.

And I'll get a speakon cable to get the full bridged power from the Carvin.

Much love to TB forum
 
#8
gtirard said:
Could you try the same amp with a different cab?
The same cab with different amp?
The SVT3PRO direct into the cab (without the Carvin)?
The Carvin direct into the cab (without the SVT3PRO)?
Click to expand...
I had a GK 400RB 1x12 combo, but that was stolen in a recent move by my old landlord.
So, for now, this Ampeg HLF is the only cab I have

The Ampeg SVT3pro needs to be biased, the FETs are running cold, so output is quiet and distorted.
Gonna remedy that this weekend.
 
#10
For bridge mode you need to use the two red binding posts. If you use 1/4" I believe the output of the amp will be very weak.

The sensitivity of this amp is 1V RMS. If the preamp can't deliver 1V, the amp will cannot make full power. DI outputs are often mic level, which is way less than 1V. AFAIK the SVT 3-Pro manual does not list the output level.

The Carvin amp has a 1/4" input. It's possible the 1/4 preamp out on the SVT 3-Pro will drive the Carvin harder than the DI out.
 
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#12
Also, since the line out of the Ampeg should be exponentially higher output than the d.i. PLEASE start with settings down and gradually turn up.

Otherwise the hlf can easily get wrecked.

I have done daft things to amps more than once. Also, try not bridged first, using banana plugs if you have them
 
#13
Wow, thank you guys, so much.

I did preamp out of the SVT3PRO into the Carvin, unbridged.
Unbelievably loud and clear.
Where before I had everything maxed and was at speaking volume, I'm now rattling the house at 9'oclock
Huge smile on my face

I've read about people not liking the HLF, but this is the best sound. It's what I've heard in my head since seeing Ozzy, Metallica, Black Label Society, etc., live.
Plenty of mids, too. Actually needs a little EQ'ing to tame those mids

Small issue though.
When I play the E note, there's some kind of sympathetic rattle going on.
I was wondering if it's from the baffle holes, but not sure.
I'm gonna dig through TB forum posts to see if it's been addressed elsewhere.
But if anyone wants to save me some homework, I'm all ears and appreciative
 
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#14
This may be a culprit for the rattling cab when hitting an E note.
I bought it used and it's best up, so I'll take apart what I can and check for rigidity issues

I

Thread 'How to fix a "farting" Ampeg 410-HLF cabinet'

Today I had a success. I have had my Ampeg SVT Heritage Classic and Ampeg 410 HLF for about a year, when maybe 3 months ago the rig began making a buzzing/farting sound when I hit certain notes in the middle of the range (E and F, second and third fret on D string). After much angst and experimentation I went into the cabinet and discovered....... that the hardware for the high frequency horn screws into the plastic horn that is mounting into the cabinet, and in my case the hardware was not screwed in tight into the plastic horn and was rattling around making a farting sound with certain...
 
#15
The PR410HLF and SVT410HLF (what most people have) are two very different beasts. The one time I heard a PR410HLF I was like WHAT IS THAT?!? The answer, I quickly realized, was that it was a speaker that can cleanly reproduce the fundamental of an E string at volume.
Bliff Curton 2 said:
When I play the E note, there's some kind of sympathetic rattle going on.
Click to expand...
With that rig you could be rattling the building on its foundation. Take it out in the middle of a parking lot far away from anything that could rattle and test it there. :laugh:
 
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#16
rickdog said:
The PR410HLF and SVT410HLF (what most people have) are two very different beasts. The one time I heard a PR410HLF I was like WHAT IS THAT?!? The answer, I quickly realized, was that it was a speaker that can cleanly reproduce the fundamental of an E string at volume.

With that rig you could be rattling the building on its foundation. Take it out in the middle of a parking lot far away from anything that could rattle and test it there. :laugh:
Click to expand...
That's actually a great idea.
And with no amps on the cab

Plus, this would be a great way for me to show off to the whole mountain/neighborhood how good I am on the bass.
Maybe I'll figure out how to play Darude Sandstorm on bass 🙃
 
#17
rickdog said:
PR410HLF and SVT410HLF (what most people have) are two very different beasts. The one time I heard a PR410HLF I was like WHAT IS THAT?!? The answer, I quickly realized, was that it was a speaker that can cleanly reproduce the fundamental of an E string at volume.
Click to expand...
My main bass is an NS Design CR5
It has 2 EMG humbuckers and a piezo in the bridge.
The piezo goes so low (very high too, in fact, rolling in the piezo is a natural mid-scoop).
It's really cool to hear a 5-string well-represented by a single cab.

I'm finding the SVT3PRO preamp very well suited for the PR410HLF.
I do positive EQ'ing on the parametric EQ, and negative EQ'ing on the graphic EQ sliders (while diming the EQ gain to push the 12au7).
The graphic EQ has a 40hz slider which is perfect to tame the HLF. Brilliant, really. Now I can use the Low switch and still have clear response across the spectrum. Cutting a little at 40, 220, 300, 600, and 1300 tames everything I need tamed.
I'm very much in love with this sound.
The SVT HLF may lack mids, but this PR HLF has everything
 
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#18
Bliff Curton 2 said:
I'm finding the SVT3PRO preamp very well suited for the PR410HLF.
Click to expand...
Love my 3Pro, I've used the preamp for recording straight into the board. Get yours biased properly (you know that adjustment is really touchy and can burn up the MOSFETS in an instant if you're careless, right?). You might find you don't need the Carvin power amp after all.
 
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#19
Yup. Thanks for the warning. That's a delicate issue I've read elsewhere a number of times.

I got the Carvin just for now, and for if the 3pro isn't loud enough.
Someone sent me a video on how they bias their 3pro - very carefully, while hooked up to a multimeter.
I'm looking forward to hearing how she sounds all tuned up.
 
#20
little follow up in case people in the future come across this thread while troubleshooting their own issues

The issue was primarily that the DI output was not hot enough for the Carvin power amp.
Power Amps have an input voltage requirement and often that's a high requirement. Simply, this is why you can't just plug your instrument into a power amp.
using my preamp's "Preamp Out" into my power amp's input solved the issue I was having

Another issue was older, faulty instrument and patch cables.
Replacing my cables also fixed my issues

As for why I haven't used my SVT3Pro as an amp to power my cab, the amp is used/old and hasn't been tuned up yet. The FET's are cold and need biasing.
Here's a thread about this very common issue with the SVT3Pro
A

Thread 'SVT3Pro Bias Setting'

I recently bought a used Ampeg SVT3Pro. I had some problems with fuzz at low volumes, and after reading every post concerning this problem I came to the conclusion I had a problem with the bias setting. I noticed almost nobody adressed this common problem with the 3Pro in detail, hence my question.

I measured the voltage over the "flameproof" resistors in the poweramp-section, they all were around 1mV. I read the biascurrent can't be higher than 20-25mA per mosfet (equals +/-10mV measured at the resistors), so I've set the bias to a higher setting, carefully checking not to exceed 10mV...

Thank you everyone for your helpful input
 

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