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Luthier with terrible attitude

#66
Manuel101 said:
Honestly I just don't get it. I was feeling bad for the guy. He kept posting about how he was struggling. His previous landlord did something shady and kicked him out of his shop. He finally found a new place to set up his shop but then he posted the message. I no longer feel bad for him. He has terrible business sense and wont listen to reason
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Let me premise this with I am not stereotyping luthiers. I know there are many on TB who's work impressed me and through their posts seem cool and professional.

But I think it is really tough out there for luthiers. The custom market is slim and guitar center offers mod and repair services so I am sure that makes it tough. Also someone could be a great luthier but business and social skills are a different set of credentials.

I heard story's about one luthier were I grew up who was a straight up ****. If he didn't like the way you looked or you asked him the wrong question which could be a basic noob question he would put you on the end of the list. But this was in Maine in a small town no competition. The guy also had an ego and thought the customer was blessed just to have him touch their instruments.

Another luthier in my area now didn't seem like a bad guy just an odd duck with no social skills. I walk in to his store he operates out of and he rants in how horrible business is. Ok if he has to vent he has to vent but then after a whole rant about times being tough and no money coming in and the business being on thin ice he then offers his services. He says "I charge a lot of money, I am really expensive but I am the best around."

I am not rich, lower middle class so he lost my business. All I could imagine is I go to get frets done or a pick up swap and I am paying his rent and a couple of bills and some debts. I get times are tough I feel it too but horrible selling point. I also bet if I asked another luthier he would say he's the best. Boasting your the best doesn't do much since everyone claims to be. Also I wouldn't be surprised if I went to another luthier and he said I am cheaper and better than that guy he over charges.

Like any field there are good, bad, and cocky people. With custom work peoples egos sometimes get tied in. Tattoo artist (not stereo typing I have had many great humble tattoo artist ink me) also can be like this. I had an artist before claim he won't tattoo my arm because he won't tattoo a body part that has another artists work. Then I had artist who were really cool and gladly took my money and tattooed despite another artists tattoo being there. I think creative services like music, art, or fine craftsmanship there's a tough balance of business and protecting you masterpieces. Since these products come from your heart, soul and creativity some people take it personal for something like selling their product. Were others can say it's business and since they bought the product it's theirs to do what they want with it.
 
#67
I had what I thought was somewhat of a relationship with a local luthier. First I bought a pickup from him that wasn't available from anyone else locally, a Loller I think. I then had him do some work on a bass and the work was fine. Then another bass with minor work done but it took longer than promised and he said he had personal problems. I didn't need the bass right away as I have several so I said no problem. Then I had a bit of a hard time pinning him down to get completion but did and the work was fine. I should have realized then that was a red flag, but I liked him and all the work so far had been fine even if deadlines were not met. I took him a bass valued at 3.5K for some work and he took notes and we agreed on the work and timeline, again "no hurry" on my end. When I went to pick up the bass the work was NOT done as we agreed, when I questioned him he admitted he had lost his notes and "thought" he remembered what was supposed to be done. I would have been happy to review what was discussed without the least bit of anger at his misplacing his notes. When I asked why he didn't just call me and ask he repeated he thought he remembered. I was furious and took my bass and left with a bass that now was devalued by him. I learned an expensive lesson. Everyone makes mistakes but not acknowledging them and maning up to them to save face is a fools errand. The old adage of two wrongs don't make a right comes to mind.
 
#68
well..... the part saying "He sells them on talkbass that website that is filled with non professional bassists who are just hobbyist" is funny, and I would say the mayority of TB members are amateurs, so why do you get mad of that?
 
#70
I can relate to a luthier getting upset when someone sells a build of theirs its not necessarily insulting but it stings the pride. When a commission is built to spec for a customer things can get very unique to that individual very fast. When dealing with musicians a lot of times we don't know what we want, OR we know exactly what we want but don't realize that the expectations are not easily achievable. Tone requirements especially. Case in point.. "I want the bass you build me to sound like a pre CBS Jazz, but I want it to have a buckeye top curly maple neck and a modern feel, oh and humbuckers" Obviously they're comparing apples to bananas but you'd be hard press to convince them of that. Much of the time the attitude is just get it done.

So taking all that into consideration, It does kinda sting when you build one, see an owner love it, brag on it, and then unexpectedly sell it. But in reality the reason for it is that most musicians, me included are straight up gear whores.. Yep we are.. YOU TOO! We like to try new things, we bore easily with them. We're constantly looking to better our sound or technique and are looking for the perfect gear to do so.

This is the reason I RARELY take commissions anymore. I would much rather just build to my own liking and sell it to someone who would appreciate what I have created. I enjoy this much more than building something from their idealism's and may have fell short in their eyes. The bass looks like it does, sounds like it does and plays like it does.. like it or not, it is what it is, it wasn't built with you in mind, if you sell it later it just didn't fit you. No biggie.


I remember working with a fellow and we had much discussion and alterations to one of my body shapes. His wood/electronics palette was simple enough he just wanted to drastically change the shape of one of my designs. I worked with him and honestly spent more time cad'n the thing up then building it. When we finally got done with his design changes I noticed that the overall shape was MUCH closer to a Fodera than what I would ever comfortably use. It wasn't spot on but it had similar traits and I didn't appreciate the un-originality of it. He had a deposit already put up, I'd already purchased the materials including a set of expensive new at the time pickups, so I built it. I haven't kept up with the guy.. So im not sure if he's kept or sold it. BUT If he has sold it, the build is a direct reflection of me. Whoever see's it from here on out isnt going to know that the original owner had a HUGE impact on how it came out especially in design, they're just going to think I mimic'd a legend..

So yeah, like I said when building for an individual things get unique to that individual and when they sell it, no one cares who that individual was and their tastes. They see the name, logo and overall package and THAT always will point back to the builder.
 
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#72
DwaynieAD said:
Op: None of your business. You did disrespect him. Tb is not the be all end all of the bass world. In fact most people I encounter outside of here who are aware of its existence do not like the forum or the members.
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What exactly did i say that was disrespectful. He posted publicly about this and I said I thought doing so would actually hurt his business. I didnt call him names or said he suck at what he did
 
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#74
Double E said:
I think you are referring to Roger from R-Bass or Roger Bass. This happened quite a long time ago...why in the world did you feel the need to bring it up now, after it as long since blown over? At least this exact scenario played out and can still be found in the R Bass thread. If I am wrong, let me know and I will delete my post.
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This just happened and yes I was referring to roger. I wasn't aware it had happened before
 

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