Made In USA

[punkinfantry]

I dunno about that. I'm just glad I drive an F150! Beat to hell and back, old enough to vote, 234k miles and still running strong!

my '96 cavalier is pushing 180k and still hasn't exploded yet! despite my best efforts...

 

[Lee H]

I have an F250 super duty with 270K on the odometer... It is still my daily driver while my corvette with about 1/3 that many miles sits, gathering dust... for some reason that just does not seem right

 

[wideyes]

I didn't make any such argument... My point was that just because a segment of the food industry deals in imported goods doesn't mean that we aren't creating jobs and revenue locally. I didn't infer anything regarding domestic manufacturing and exports vs foreign produced imported goods of the same ilk.

Fair enough. I started to feel like there were many comments in the thread that had a vague feeling of citing the import-service model as a functional replacement for a manufacturing-export model, and I picked yours to refute.

Look to Germany as a model of a nation that did not outsource its manufacturing. Germany is holding Europe up by the scruff of the neck and trying to balance out a number of other European nations' economic follies. Outsourcing is unpatriotic, greedy, shortsighted idiocy.

 

[Lee H]

outsourcing does have advantages as well... Look at the automotive industry. American cars switched to fuel injection only because of regulations, and they were way behind the european countries. Harley Davidson stepped up quality because they could not compete with asian companies

I am as patriotic as the next guy, but I do think competition promotes innovation.

 

[sethlow3]

I am as patriotic as the next guy, but I do think competition promotes innovation.

It does. That's the problem with massive subsidies.

 

[bassplayer8953]

outsourcing does have advantages as well...

disagree

Look at the automotive industry. American cars switched to fuel injection only because of regulations, and they were way behind the european countries.

What does that have to do with outsourcing? Outsourcing is American corporations shutting down MIA operations and moving production to other countries, most notably China. American car companies improved their product, MIA or elsewhere: so did their competition. Nothing to do with outsourcing.

Harley Davidson stepped up quality because they could not compete with asian companies

While HD did up their qc in the 80's, the biggest issue at the time was "dumping"...selling motorcycles at bargain-basement prices...in order to put the MIA competition out of business. Our government stepped in, at the time, to help create a more level playing field for the domestic brand, by using tarrifs on import motorcycles. Fortunately, for those of us who appreciate HD's motorycles, the brand survived. Unfortunately, no government help, as of late, to help protect American labor from being undercut by Asian competition, and having their jobs "outsourced" by supposedly "American" corporations. While I applaud the gov't stepping forward to save an American icon, I guess Joe Sixpack doesn't rate the same attention from the folks in Washington.

I am as patriotic as the next guy, but I do think competition promotes innovation.

True, competition on a level playing field is good for the overall. But the competition from the Far East is anything but fair. And remember, unlike the US, other nations...incuding China...protect their domestic industries.

 

[Lee H]

I think you see a different part of this then I had meant, and It is probably my own fault for not being specific...automotive outsourcing is not just about sending jobs to other countries. Our big three auto makers have manufacturing facilities in other countries, but those do not make the same automobiles as we get here. Much of the developments we get here, are designed, developed, tested and manufactured in other countries. Look at the european ford fusion, and how far it has been ahead of the American.
I used harley as an example because the company has been it's own worst enemy. You did point out the advances that came about in 1984, and while that is true, there is more to it then that. Prior to that harley was owned by AMF. While AMF stands for American Machine and Foundry, the primary owners were Asian. harleys were being built as disposable rolling junkers, just as the asian bikes were, at the time. The primary design changes were made toi emulate other motorcycles, and the evo engine was born in 1984

 

[madmatt]

This is why I drink Samuel Adams beer.
Blackberry Witbier to be precise.

 

[tylerwylie]

BS. No one is an island, we don't live in the 1800's. Tax monies are not "lost". Taxes provide our infrastucture, our education system, our military, police, fire...the list goes on. Not to mention Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and other programs that raise our quality of life as a whole. Those who propose no taxes are in reality proposing no government. Move to Mexico, to witness first hand the results of what you propose, without effective government. Carlos Slim is doing fine...the rest...well, take a look...

Taxation is simply what we pay for barbarism. There's the civilized way of dealing with each other, and then there's the political way.

These programs you cite as raising our quality of life are only able to be funded through violence and coercion against the unborn(and living too). The debt and theft burden will eventually crush the middle class out of existence. The voluntary solutions that will replace these horrific programs will not be destructive and will not require making our youth and unborn indentured servants to the state.

The math just simply doesn't work and kicking the stone down the road to the next generation will just make the problems worse.

 

[tylerwylie]

This is why I drink Samuel Adams beer.
Blackberry Witbier to be precise.

Rogue Ale's are great as well. I believe they're made in Oregon

 

[totallyfrozen]

We are moving toward a global economy with a global currency and eventually a global government. There is nothing we can do to stop it and at this point there might not be anything we can do to even postpone it (assuming you'd even want to). Some people might not like the idea but that doesn't/won't make a difference. Just buy the best quality you can for the best price you can and get on with your life.

 

[ksandvik]

We are moving toward a global economy with a global currency and eventually a global government. There is nothing we can do to stop it and at this point there might not be anything we can do to even postpone it (assuming you'd even want to). Some people might not like the idea but that doesn't/won't make a difference. Just buy the best quality you can for the best price you can and get on with your life.

I think we could make a difference. Small things count. Global economy should not be equal to downsize jobs in USA and ship them overseas because nobody buys equally good US made products just because it is slightly more expensive.

...maybe it's time to save money and not purchase so much 'plastic stuff' this holiday season.

 

[Lee H]

Rogue Ale's are great as well. I believe they're made in Oregon

I was a fan of Oregon Honey Beer, when it first came out..That stuff is nothing but bottled hangovers

 

[sethlow3]

This is why I drink Samuel Adams beer.
Blackberry Witbier to be precise.

LMAO

 

[sethlow3]

I've bought MIA basses. I've bought German basses. I've bought Japanese basses. I've bought Indonesian basses. We're moving/already at a Global Economy. We have a high standard of living then most of the world. We already have what we NEED. It's just an issue of what we WANT.

Nicely said!

 

[wideyes]

Taxation is simply what we pay for barbarism....

These programs you cite as raising our quality of life are only able to be funded through violence and coercion against the unborn(and living too)... The voluntary solutions that will replace these horrific programs will not be destructive and will not require making our youth and unborn indentured servants to the state.

What are you talking about?

And what are "voluntary solutions"?

 

[bassplayer8953]

What are you talking about?

And what are "voluntary solutions"?

I considered responding to these statements (he was quoting me, responding to him earlier).

I decided that some opinions are so far "out there" that there is no rational response.

totallyfrozen: We are moving toward a global economy with a global currency and eventually a global government. There is nothing we can do to stop it and at this point there might not be anything we can do to even postpone it (assuming you'd even want to). Some people might not like the idea but that doesn't/won't make a difference. Just buy the best quality you can for the best price you can and get on with your life.

To merely accept the inequities that are being thrust at us is a cop-out. Suffice to say, this is not the scenario in places that are not the USA: including the protagonist: China:

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Ironic that the very country doing the financial damage to the US recognizes the importance of protecting it's own industries...while we do not, and make excuses.

 

[tylerwylie]

I considered responding to these statements (he was quoting me, responding to him earlier).

I decided that some opinions are so far "out there" that there is no rational response.

To merely accept the inequities that are being thrust at us is a cop-out. Suffice to say, this is not the scenario in places that are not the USA: including the protagonist: China:

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Ironic that the very country doing the financial damage to the US recognizes the importance of protecting it's own industries...while we do not, and make excuses.

Wow... Lol

 

[tylerwylie]

What are you talking about?

And what are "voluntary solutions"?

Voluntary solutions simply requires that means be compatible with the ends. Political and coercive means to solving issues with poverty and other social problems will lead to undesired results. History illustrates this for us.

 

[6jase5]

To merely accept the inequities that are being thrust at us is a cop-out. Suffice to say, this is not the scenario in places that are not the USA: including the protagonist: China:

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Ironic that the very country doing the financial damage to the US recognizes the importance of protecting it's own industries...while we do not, and make excuses.

Do you not think that we have duties on their imports? I don't know where to start, but if anyone wants to learn the story of the automotive industry and foreign car companies manufacturing in the US, best to google Auto Foreign Trade Zones and read up. Either that or look up the story of the Subaru Brat to get started.

I for one am quite fine with this country recognizing what we are good at manufacturing and what we are not, and using the best of globalization which exploded in 1970 thanks to a smart trucker named Malcolm McLean. The argument that we should be keeping all manufacturing jobs here is an ignorant one that goes against educated principals of economics and import/export benefits. Don't blame China for the US having an insatiable appetite for "their stuff" which has been well proven that would not be purchased based on US prod cost. Callaway left Chicoppee Mass and San Diego for a reason....nobody will pay for their US made clubs other than the 1%, so they keep just a little bit here for them.

Mass produced clothing, solar, toys, call centers and mass produced electronics....just not our bag and never will be again. Software/electronics design, biotech/medical, defense, Auto, sure....we can compete. I'm sure that I missed a few but the point is that we have some strengths but not in every field.