Made in vs Crafted in

[SamJ]

The Cort and Cor-tek issues you reference still don't prove their factories are sweat shops. Bad management, layoffs and plant closings without considerstion of the labor force happen everywhere, not just Asia, jusk the GM worker in Canada who lost his job to cheaper labor in Alabama.

As for their pay, if you were to adjust for currency and cost of living, the 2500 RMB the workers in the China plant make per month would not be that different from the $3000 the Corona plant worker gets, or the 5000 pesos per month the Ensenada plant worker gets. You can't transplant one set of wages into another country's economy and assume it's abusive.

You're welcome to your opinion, but if you've ever bought a $50 pair of jeans, $99 drill or a $250 bike for your kid, then you may want to pay closer attention to those glass walls around you.

The cost of living in China, especially around the large cities where these factories are (Shangai, Beijing) is stratospheric... are you kidding me?

As for buying stuff.. I can state without exception that ANYTHING that I can buy that is made in the US, EU or Japan (and other 1st world labor markets) I do.. Jeans, clothing, shoes, etc.. Where that is not always possible, then I buy from other countries like Thailand, Egypt, Tunisia, Panama, Mexico, etc..

Somethings like computers and phones are just about impossible but I was able to get my HTC phone which is made in Taiwan, and a Samsung tablet made in Korea...

Sadly, you're right, there are some things where we have no choice... but I just do what I can and sleep well knowing I am.

 

[MarkoYYZ]

Having been there in person, I can tell you with 100% certainty that these factories are not in top tier cities like Beijing or Shanghai. If they were, they would be in satellite towns to these centers where costs are lower (as many factories in fact are), but the towns known specifically for instrument manufacture are typically in the northeast near Korea, or in the south in Guangdong province, with decent access to shipping ports around Shenzhen and Donggaun.

In all cases, they are in secondary or outlying cities and towns where cost of living is far more agreeable to a migrant or factory worker. These jobs would be considered pretty good, compared to others in more dirty or labor intensive industries.

Even in Shenzhen proper, people are able to achieve a 'middle class' lifestyle on a couple of thousand RMB per month, if each of the husband and wife works.

I'm not in any way saying China is perfect and won't comment on Cambodia (not sure why you even brought that up). Korea and Japan are definitely more in line with us in terms of standards and lifestyle, but as I mentioned before - you can be proud of being American without having to denigrate others. They want a to work to earn a better life, just like everyone else and if therr is a way to spread the work and economic benefits around, it's far bettet to do it through commerce where everyone benefits, than to simply extort money from the west and ship it elsewhere under the guise of environmentalism or aid. IMO.

 

[SamJ]

Having been there in person, I can tell you with 100% certainty that these factories are not in top tier cities like Beijing or Shanghai. If they were, they would be in satellite towns to these centers where costs are lower (as many factories in fact are), but the towns known specifically for instrument manufacture are typically in the northeast near Korea, or in the south in Guangdong province, with decent access to shipping ports around Shenzhen and Donggaun.

I've been in and out of China for the past 20 years.... know it better than 99.999% on here... problems with that country on many levels, too many to even get into for a doctoral thesis.. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the morality of outsourcing there... The single biggest problem I think China now has, as a result of all of this migration of factory work into their more or less unregulated market is their environment is suffering (and by extension the world)... the total lack of any regulations on dumping have turned their major cities and outlaying areas into health hazards on many levels.

.....won't comment on Cambodia (not sure why you even brought that up).

Because it's on the radar for many manufacturers right now as a place to go when China and Vietnam gets to expensive.. Just like Bangladesh has become the new "India"..

Korea and Japan are definitely more in line with us in terms of standards and lifestyle, but as I mentioned before - you can be proud of being American without having to denigrate others.

Maybe it's because you're Canadian and have a chip on your shoulder, I don't know... but where did you ever get the impression that I have a problem with Made in Japan? And the only reason I brought up Korea and Cort is because they outsourced to China to get around the already lower labor standards in Korea than the USA..

Made in Japan and Germany in many areas (optics is a prime one) is something that carries more water than Made in the USA for me.. I drive a German made car, I have Japanese optics, as well as German, I have a Japanese made Suzuki harmonica that is 2nd to nothing... Don't worry, I'm not the "Buy 'Merican" red neck that you think I am.


bottomline.... 1st world labor markets should not be forced to compete with 3rd world labor markets when the playing field is uneven.... environmental laws, labor laws, wages.. etc.. That is what God made tariffs for... sadly not since Reagan was president did the US levy one worth a mention......

 

[bassballs27]

Speaking from experience, I tend to prefer American or Canadian hand built instruments simply because they work for me and I feel are worth the money. Many people don't think that way and they're okay with the basses they can afford.
As you go up in value it becomes a journey of diminishing returns. This is why I never buy new and always buy used.
All builders are at the mercy of the wood they're built from. Believe me, as perfect as a build can be, the end result can be a very compressed and crappy sounding instrument. That's the risk you take without playing something first. So, the key to all of it is……play the bass….if you enjoy it and it works for you……you've hit a home run. However, if over time you then realize that the truss rod doesn't work, the fret work is poor, or various other factors drive you crazy……try another bass…..and the journey will continue! For the most part, have fun, and try to not look at the front or in the case the back of the headstock!

 

[MarkoYYZ]

Right, I'm the one with the chip on my shoulder.

In any case, I don't necessarily disagree with everything you've said - I was trying to counter the way you presented anything made in Asia as 'sweatshop' product. This thread isn't exactly the first time you've ever made a disparaging comment, so while you may not be the "made in 'murica redneck" you think I am making you out to be, you could certainly choose your words in a way that wasn't so dismissive of non US products. That was what I was responding to.

/thread derail.

As for the thread itself, the bulk of my collection is MIJ or CIJ, but soon enough that will change to AIC (assembled in Canada).

 

[SamJ]

Right, I'm the one with the chip on my shoulder.

In any case, I don't necessarily disagree with everything you've said - I was trying to counter the way you presented anything made in Asia as 'sweatshop' product. This thread isn't exactly the first time you've ever made a disparaging comment, so while you may not be the "made in 'murica redneck" you think I am making you out to be, you could certainly choose your words in a way that weren't so dismissive of non US products. That was what I was responding to.

/thread derail.

As for the thread itself, the bulk of my collection is MIJ or CIJ, but soon enough that will change to AIC (assembled in Canada).

Once again.. no problem with "Asia" ... it's China and similar labor markets, and I've made it abundantly clear that I have no problem with Non-USA products... probably have spent more on German imports than anything else in my life... YES, my instruments happen to be USA made, but I've GASsed for a few German, and Canadian brands too... Hope That was clear enough.. Crafted or otherwise...