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Magnets! Neodymium vs AlNiCo vs Ceramic-Ferrite

What is your favorite tone magnet?

  • AlNiCo

    Votes: 40 26.0%

  • Ceramic-Ferrite

    Votes: 18 11.7%

  • Neodymium

    Votes: 53 34.4%

  • Beets

    Votes: 43 27.9%
  • Total voters
    154
  • Poll closed .
#44
Lo-E said:
Was the magnet material the only difference, or did the rest of the design change to accommodate the change in motor design? Just curious.
Click to expand...

There were other changes too, many in the direction of reducing cost. I was comparing a $4500/pair speaker with an Alnico woofer to a $2700/pair speaker with a Neo woofer.
 
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#48
Linnin said:
That's an interesting take on tone magnets. Why would you think that?
Click to expand...
In all seriousness, I've read on other threads, that although the cabs using neodymium magnets/cones are lighter in weight making them much easier to haul around, they can't get as deep as a cab with cones loaded with ceramic magnets ... in a side by side (A/B) comparison. ... Any truth in that? ... in other words, the neo cabs are "lacking" in the low end when compared to the ceramics.
 
#49
madjazzbass said:
In all seriousness, I've read on other threads, that although the cabs using neodymium magnets/cones are lighter in weight making them much easier to haul around, they can't get as deep as a cab with cones loaded with ceramic magnets ... in a side by side (A/B) comparison. ... Any truth in that? ... in other words, the neo cabs are "lacking" in the low end when compared to the ceramics.
Click to expand...

This sounds like people hearing with their eyes.
 
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#50
FingerDub said:
I think most of the cabinet weight is in the construction and cab itself. An 80 OZ magnet is 5 pounds...How much do the neo's weigh? Just 2 or 3 pounds less? That's not a deal breaker for me.
Click to expand...
Let's take a look at Bergs since they currently are my cabs of choice.
The HD112 is 44 lbs, the HDN112 is 28 lbs.
Same power handling, same size, same speaker config.

Same for Ampeg. Old 410HLF was 84 lbs, the PN410HLF is 64 lbs.

It is what I call a deal breaker. And they don't walk on stage.
Or am I mistaken in thinking that neo magnets make less a difference in weight than construction?
If so, why is light construction always applied to neo cabs?
 
#51
madjazzbass said:
In all seriousness, I've read on other threads, that although the cabs using neodymium magnets/cones are lighter in weight making them much easier to haul around, they can't get as deep as a cab with cones loaded with ceramic magnets ... in a side by side (A/B) comparison. ... Any truth in that? ... in other words, the neo cabs are "lacking" in the low end when compared to the ceramics.
Click to expand...

It depends on far more than just the magnet material. While there are minor differences in how various magnetic materials behave at high power levels, any audible differences are probably due to motor strength, assuming the voice coil/gap geometry, cone, and suspension systems are identical.

Neodymium magnet motors can be more powerful than their ceramic counterparts which would make it sound like they have "less bottom end", but really what they have is "more of everything else".

The fEARful cabs, for example, go quite deep, and they all use Eminence Kappalite neo magnet woofers. Those woofers are designed to go deep and loud and have no trouble doing so.
 
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#52
Jazz Ad said:
Let's take a look at Bergs since they currently are my cabs of choice.
The HD112 is 44 lbs, the HDN112 is 28 lbs.
Same power handling, same size, same speaker config.

Same for Ampeg. Old 410HLF was 84 lbs, the PN410HLF is 64 lbs.

It is what I call a deal breaker. And they don't walk on stage.
Or am I mistaken in thinking that neo magnets make less a difference in weight than construction?
If so, why is light construction always applied to neo cabs?
Click to expand...

Are you trying to tell me that in your 1x12 cab, the difference in the weight of the cab is because the speaker weighs 16 pounds less because of the magnet?? Or are you saying that because the speaker is neo, it allows them to make a cab from lighter and less solid materials? If so, what is the reason? If that is the case, I don't see how the type of magnet in the speaker affects the construction of the cab. AFAIK, that just means the speaker is more efficient, and should have no bearing on the construction of the cab.

If anything, pairing lightweight cabs with lighter speakers makes sense from a functional and marketing perspective. To maximize the lightweight effect for the number crunchers and to actually reduce the weight further. Anyway, I am saying that yes, the cab construction is a much bigger component in weight than the speaker magnet.

My 1x12 Aguilar cabs have 56oz magnet and they weigh 47 pounds each - the magnet is nothing compared to the overall weight.
 
#53
FingerDub said:
Are you trying to tell me that in your 1x12 cab, the difference in the weight of the cab is because the speaker weighs 16 pounds less because of the magnet?? Or are you saying that because the speaker is neo, it allows them to make a cab from lighter and less solid materials?
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to say anything. I don't build cabs.
Cabs equiped with neos tend to be way lighter than others with equivalent specs, not just a couple pounds.
If there is another reason for it, there are enough pros in this thread to explain it better than I could.
 
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#54
DukeLeJeune said:
It depends on far more than just the magnet material. While there are minor differences in how various magnetic materials behave at high power levels, any audible differences are probably due to motor strength, assuming the voice coil/gap geometry, cone, and suspension systems are identical.

Neodymium magnet motors can be more powerful than their ceramic counterparts which would make it sound like they have "less bottom end", but really what they have is "more of everything else".

The fEARful cabs, for example, go quite deep, and they all use Eminence Kappalite neo magnet woofers. Those woofers are designed to go deep and loud and have no trouble doing so.
Click to expand...
Thank You, much appreciated
 
#55
Jazz Ad said:
I'm not trying to say anything. I don't build cabs.
Cabs equiped with neos tend to be way lighter than others with equivalent specs, not just a couple pounds.
If there is another reason for it, there are enough pros in this thread to explain it better than I could.
Click to expand...

If I set out to build a lightweight cab because there's an available market niche, it makes sense to use both lightweight construction and lightweight speakers. A mon avis, quand-meme.

The downside of course is the higher price tag.
 
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#57
Jazz Ad said:
I'm not trying to say anything. I don't build cabs.
Cabs equiped with neos tend to be way lighter than others with equivalent specs, not just a couple pounds.

If there is another reason for it, there are enough pros in this thread to explain it better than I could.
Click to expand...

Lets hope they chime in. You are basically hypothesizing here that the cabs with neo drivers can somehow be built/created/designed to be lighter because of the magnet weight of the speaker(s). If there is a reason for that, I'd love for some pro here to explain to me why.

I get what you are saying though. I think it is just because neos are best for manufactures to keep the weight down even further in their lightweight driven cabs.
 
#58
I'll put my head partially on the block and say that they sound differently to me but, Duke's explanation makes sense with what I'm hearing. That said, why aren't there any neo drivers that sound like some of the really loved ceramics? I do find some things more pleasing about each but, at the very least, I can hear the design choices being made and they aren't always for the better IMO and slowly, more players are starting to feel the same way. Kind of a neo hangover! That said, I'm still doing diy cabs with both for fun.
 
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#59
DukeLeJeune said:
>snip<

The fEARful cabs, for example, go quite deep, and they all use Eminence Kappalite neo magnet woofers. Those woofers are designed to go deep and loud and have no trouble doing so.
Click to expand...

I actually would like to object here. Mid 40s (-3 dB) unassisted can hardly be described as "deep bass" nowadays, not even for a bass cab. ACMEs do deep bass. JBL PRX718XLF does deep bass. Danley CS 30 does deep bass. Anything vented (that I have seen) with an Eminence 3015LF will do "middle of the road" bass extension, but go fairly low. Eminence simply does not focus on doing infra bass ready drivers.
 
#60
Actually the Faital 15PR400, if I remember the model number correctly, is a very close replacement (tone wise) for a coveted JBL D or K series. They will handle much more power before destruction though, so they have that "against them" in these days of 800 to 3000 watt amps being used. The Faital neos just don't fry like an old JBL.

I really personally see this thread as being only a way to start or spread more/new internet myths. Maybe troll some?

I am an Artist, Musician and also quite educated/trained/experienced in electronics and design. Conjecture away, reality will be waiting.
 
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