Mainstream Music Stinks!

[Rib 13]

I'm going to blame the cut-and-paste practices tied to the rise and growth of hip-hop in the 80's and 90's for the general dumbing-down of pop music over the last 30 years; based on their product, most commercially successful producers in these genres don't seem to understand any theory beyond the very basic rudiments, caring far more about "beats". This results in skeletal "songs" that occasionally have no discernible chord progressions and only the vaguest notion of overall harmony, and that came from whatever was sampled to create the "new song".

Like i say in all these threads: the thing about human technological evolution is that we dont get to say which things we want to evolve (telephones to smartphones) and which things we don't (analog/manually played recordings to digital/sample-wav-loop cut n paste)....these threads are very controversial because, unlike previous changes in popular music preferences, there are points to be made about the de-evolution of what constitutes talent in the several decades, and especially the last twenty years...as you say, since the rap revolution (does anybody remember thinkng "oh, its just a fad...it wont last"), it seems there is an inversely proportional relationship between ↑ technology and ↓musical skill, ↓talent, and ↓composition knowledge

as @Nev375 stated above, modern corporate-for-the-masses music has the artistic equivalent of a meme....considering the cut-n-paste strategy employed by both, this is a pretty good analogy

 

[AboutSweetSue]

Not long ago that had been whittled down to folk singers with "3 chords and the truth" which is the equivalent of a Hallmark greeting card.

Nice. Although I think it’s much more than the equivalent of a Hallmark....I love the analogy because it does make sense when looking at it from a musical complexity POV.

Beethoven=War and Peace
Bod Dylan=Hallmark

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Music changes and most people's tastes get cemented somewhere around the time they hit 25-30. When The Beatles hit the scene, the old farts complained about the noise. Bring back vaudeville!!!!

 

[Tom Gallo]

Am I just getting old or is the current mainstream, over-produced drivel pretending to be music the garbage I believe it to be. Sure, once in a blue moon something halfway worthwhile mysteriously finds it's way onto the radio, clubs, etc. - but that's rare. It"s almost as if the music moguls have brainwashed our youth into thinking that what they're hearing is worthwhile.

Who died and made you the arbiter of what's worthwhile? If people like it and listen to it, then it's worthwhile.

 

[funkymonk13]

Ehh Isn’t that the way it’s been for a long time?

Just looking at what I would consider mainstream, Billie eilish and Tyler the creator put out amazing albums this year. If you drop down to stuff that’s popular but not super mainstream there’s a lot of good stuff too.

 

[Tom Gallo]

That's a good attitude you have right there. How's that working out for you? Do you understand the meaning of the word respect? Oh, and being "sick of this forum turning into a retirement community" indicates that you are, indeed, taking all this personally.

My attitude when it comes to music snobs is working just fine, thanks. I have zero respect for you and your opinions. You could have come here and make a thoughtful post to spark discussion, but instead you tossed a turd into the punch bowl.

 

[dramatwist]

I try to convince myself that whatever the kids like, they should listen to. My daughter's boyfriend is a fairly well-known metal musician, but it's not what I would spend my time on. My music is what I grew up with (60s/70s.) My parents had their own era of music. I did get my father to sit down and listen to "Abbey Road" when it came out. He said he liked it, but I'm not sure I believed him.

 

[Tony In Philly]

It's always been a challenge for the good stuff to break through but now it's harder than ever. Mainstream pop today is a total wasteland.

 

[Rib 13]

If people like it and listen to it, then it's worthwhile.

this is exactly why i said in my above post this is controversial......while true i do believe there is an inversely proportional relationship between technological advancements and modern-for-the-masses music, I also get that newer music produced by newer generations isnt meant for me and my generation....what you stated there in the quote above is the bottomline....the question is: Is this also a reflection on what is perceived to be artistic value by younger folks? I don't know: Would be an interesting TEDx topic

 

[74hc]

It's somewhat sophisticatedly, disguised muzak music.

 

[Ostie]

Am I just getting old or is the current mainstream, over-produced drivel pretending to be music the garbage I believe it to be. Sure, once in a blue moon something halfway worthwhile mysteriously finds it's way onto the radio, clubs, etc. - but that's rare. It"s almost as if the music moguls have brainwashed our youth into thinking that what they're hearing is worthwhile.

Anyone agree/disagree? Thoughts? Comments?

Edit: Yes, I know I sound like my dad.

It’s not just you. I haven’t liked anything mainstream in a long, long time. Some of the acoustic music from the 90s during the “unplugged” period was interesting. I enjoy a lot of Alt Country and Newgrass, but none of that gets played, except on XM radio. I guess I’m just an old fashioned guy. Well, hell, I am a grandpa, so I guess that's my excuse.

 

[bassballs27]

Am I just getting old or is the current mainstream, over-produced drivel pretending to be music the garbage I believe it to be. Sure, once in a blue moon something halfway worthwhile mysteriously finds it's way onto the radio, clubs, etc. - but that's rare. It"s almost as if the music moguls have brainwashed our youth into thinking that what they're hearing is worthwhile.

Anyone agree/disagree? Thoughts? Comments?

Edit: Yes, I know I sound like my dad.

The quality of music has been diminishing for decades. Why? Electronics started it all!
Invalid Link Removed

This article is a great read.
As a musician, I can appreciate the timbre of a live instrument, not the sound of one that is being emulated digitally. Music went wrong when all of a sudden just one person could produce music by one person using a laptop and cheap computer speakers. Where’s the talent in that. I’ll admit there is some, but where’s the human played instruments that we know and love? Sampled once and thrown in their cases?

 

[bluesblaster]

So I think the lesson here is that there is plenty of good stuff out there on the air waves for everyone whatever your tastes, if you take the time to go look for it. yes there is a lot of homogenization out there and that's unfortunate but this is why I advocate tuning into your local independent radio. We are fortunate to have pretty good radio in our area, but with new tech like streaming it opens up your options even further plus there are services like Sirius and the like to explore. So stop complaining you cant find anything good to listen to anymore and start exploring, trust me, there's a radio station for everyone somewhere out there.

 

[J-Mags]

The worst you can say is that the ratio of good stuff to dreck has worsened. But I don't really believe that "Bad Guy" by Billie Eilish is actually worse than "Jet Airliner" by Steve Miller band to name two random pretty good hits from then and now, or that the lamentable "Truth Hurts" by Lizzo is actually more lamentable than "A Little Bit Country and A Little Bit Rock & Roll."

Also 2019 is a particularly bad year. We get em. But "Old Town Road" isn't a bad novelty hit either.

And people are lamenting Cardi B, but I can make my wife unspeakably angry by singing "Bodak Yellow" in a Bob Dylan voice. That's gotta count for something, right?

 

[bass12]

Sure. But I try to police myself on this constantly. Constantly try to check myself to see if I'm being a cranky old douche with limited taste, and try to objectively breakdown what is cognitively dissonant to me about 'new music'.

I like lots of genres/styles, so I actively try to like new stuff if I can, and this includes genres I think have generally slid into a load of crap: aka country and mainstream hip-hop. I actively try to listen for the exceptions there that represent quality.



This x100. Some of this criticism comes from people who just don't like 'accessible' or 'familiar' compositions. Thats your prerogative if you do. That's fine. If you just hate pop music you probably would have hated Paul McCartney songs 40 years ago too. Me - I'm fine with a good pop song even if its not revolutionary. It should just be quality at least. Good lyrical / musical hooks and performances.



Not quoting whole post but yeah... Here's what I think the core causes of "to what degree there is a real problem" are:

• Upheaval in the music industry structure / supply chain and radio technology actually ironically making it easier for labels to cram crap out there than ever. Radio is 1. nearly completely automated, and 2. dying (sadly - I'm a radio freak... love me some radio...) If the computertransmitters are all playing the same program there's no competition on quality of music and 'discovery' between stations.
• Technology and mis-use of hip-hop derived methods and styles: sure the industry looks for formulaic songs - they always have - but instead of actual talented company song writer bang out a good tune and then actual talented studio musicians lay it down... "OH COOL ALL WE NEED IS SAMPLES AND REPEATED SYNTH DRUM BEATS AND LIKE SOME GUY AUTOTUNED OVER IT!" "HEY LETS USE THAT WITH COUNTRY NOW TOO!" BTW I am not anti sample/sequencer or anti-hip-hop by any means. I'm just anti-untalented sample/sequencer/hip-hop.
• Empirically the landscape of accessible tonal / melodic / harmonic / rythmic 'possibilities' is far more exploited than ever before. Its a lot harder to invent/discover a 'new genre' than will be accessible to the civilian that it would have been in 1940/1950/1960. Some will argue with me but I think this is just fundamentally true. OK could "Indonesian-Slendro-scale-based polyrhythmic-thrash-metal" be a 'new thing'? Sure. But in terms of stuff that was relatively easy to 'invent' yet be accessible to the public... variations on common / obvious / easy listenable chord progressions, pentatonic based melodies / forms... I think the 20th century exhausted a lot of the options. Its like the globe. We've explored almost everything, and for stuff we haven't... well... we pretty much can still map out where it is... So... everything is gonna start sounding somewhat derivative.

Definitely. Digging is more work maybe than it used to be where you could tune in to your indy/alt/jazz/r&b stations and pickup whatever sounded good... but...

• There's still some independent and live-DJ radio out there. I have to stream stations to do this, and sometimes that's a PITA but I do and when I do I am always hearing some new great stuff. And I feverently hope that the future death of terrestrial radio will be a transition to more independent streaming stations / live DJ's spinning their favorite new discoveries.
• If you have good local venues, even if you can't make it to shows you can use their list of artists as 'listening samplers'. I get emails from some venues weekly and sometimes I will just sample the artists coming up that I've never heard of and discover great stuff.
• On the R&B/hip-hop scene, while many/most of the big mainstream artists are artistically without merit, autotuned sequencer programmed repetitive dreck (forcing myself to not name names...) there are some extremely cool artists out there including those that use live bands along with samples & automation, and don't use autotuning. Look for the guys who play with real full live bands - sometimes called the "neo-soul" genre. Some really good stuff out there. Too bad it doesn't displace the horrible autotuned crap that "all them damn kids listen to".

Check out the new Bluke record (a collaboration between Blurum13 and Luke Vibert). Some "underground" hip-hop you might enjoy.

 

[dramatwist]

Listen/don't listen. No rules.

 

[DeepThoughts]

With the death of radio and brick & mortar record retail....where is this mainstream you speak of? Don't let some algorithm dictate what you hear!

There is as much ( more?) new and exciting music being made now as ever. How we are made aware of music has changed and become more challenging but equally rewarding. We should talk more about the GREAT music that is being made than pooping on the mediocre. The 60's and 70's were a creative, technological and business apex for the popular music biz, the likes of which won't be seen again soon.
That being said the PAST is full of great music that was under appreciated or maybe didn't fit into your "style"...the tube's of You are great for this pursuit. If you need a few leads ...let me know, i'm glad to tell you what's good ....lol

 

[the zombywoof]

It seems that when I really like a bands first couple of albums, once they get popular they get more refined and over produced, usually by the industries money making formula , and it ruins everything, seems like its not their music anymore or ideas. Like everything else, it now happens faster . and to the whole industry. they overproduce it out of the gate. And give it to us in a low quality format

 

[bass12]

Music changes and most people's tastes get cemented somewhere around the time they hit 25-30. When The Beatles hit the scene, the old farts complained about the noise. Bring back vaudeville!!!!

But we're not talking about a departure that radical. What you hear on the radio today is not that far removed from what was one the radio twenty-five years ago. There's no revolution, just de-evolution (though I suppose a case could be made by some that what we're seeing constitutes evolution). Sure, there have been some relatively minor stylistic changes (a lot of top 40 is derived more from "club" music than in previous decades), but the songs still fit easily into the "pop song" realm.

 

[the zombywoof]

i'm talkin music in general, I do not even listen to pop