"Making A Murderer" (Netflix) - anyone watching? Beware: spoilers

[friskinator]

Anyone watching this on Netflix? Just finished the last episode, and it's by far one of the best true crime documentaries I've seen. If anyone's watching, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I won't reveal any spoilers here, but since all 10 eps were released at once, it may be difficult to keep it that way.

EDIT: Spoilers are OK since it's going to be impossible to discuss the show/case without them. If you haven't seen all 10 eps, proceed with caution!

 

[IPA]

I'm a big fan of Serial and Criminal and The Jinx so I was pretty excited to hear about this show.

Just got one episode in and looking forward to the rest. It has a lot of potential although at this point I'm having a hard time developing a lot of empathy for Steve. Maybe a little sympathy but not empathy. I know nothing about the case so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[petrus61]

Been watching for the last two days and am blown away. I'm fighting every urge I have to skip ahead and spoil it. This blows away the Fred Durst doc by leaps and bounds and is about as dramatic and suspenseful as a doc could hope to be.

 

[IPA]

Fred Durst

No spoilers up in here please! I'm trying my best not to read any Wikipedia articles or anything.

 

[Hoff Kinkmeister]

Saw the trailer, plan on watching. How about those that have watched can discuss it, just put all the spoilers after a warning in the same post?

 

[friskinator]

Saw the trailer, plan on watching. How about those that have watched can discuss it, just put all the spoilers after a warning in the same post?

That might work. Or I could try to change the thread title to include spoiler warnings. It's probably going to be too difficult to have zero spoilers and still discuss the show.

 

[IPA]

I'll bow myself out til later in the week when I finish it

 

[Matt O]

Finished it last night.

It is without question the best true crime doc I have watched. Maybe it's because I'm still stunned by it, but yes, I believe it's the best I've seen. Masterwork level storytelling by Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos.

Since not many have finished it yet, I'll hold off on the discussion 'til later...

I will say to anyone who is a fan of the genre of true crime, watch it. Anyone who would not like insight into the levels of corruption that are possible in the criminal justice system, avoid it.

 

[friskinator]

I'm a big fan of Serial and Criminal and The Jinx so I was pretty excited to hear about this show.

Just got one episode in and looking forward to the rest. It has a lot of potential although at this point I'm having a hard time developing a lot of empathy for Steve. Maybe a little sympathy but not empathy. I know nothing about the case so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

I know what you mean. The cat incident had me hating him from the start, but I had to separate that from the rest of the case to be fair.

 

[Matt O]

I think that is exactly why the story is so powerful. It challenged me to find any sort of compassion for him early in the story and that was difficult. Steve isn't the model Manitowoc citizen, hated by many in the community and even some in his family despise him. Now you are in the frame of mind of the sheriffs department. They have a problem called Steve Avery that needs to go away.

 

[friskinator]

I think that is exactly why the story is so powerful. It challenged me to find any sort of compassion for him early in the story and that was difficult. Steve isn't the model Manitowoc citizen, hated by many in the community and even some in his family despise him. Now you are in the frame of mind of the sheriffs department. They have a problem called Steve Avery that needs to go away.

Agreed. My biggest question after watching all of it was: who killed her? And why? And if the police didn't plant evidence, who did? Even though the whole investigation reeked of corruption and lies, I still wanted to hear other theories on what actually happened. Too bad the judge wouldn't allow any of that talk in the courtroom.

That being said, I don't trust Halbach's brother any further than I could throw him. He and the ex-boyfriend's anecdote of hacking her wireless account and voicemail seemed awfully suspicious, especially the part about the deleted voicemails.

 

[Matt O]

Agreed. My biggest question after watching all of it was: who killed her? And why? And if the police didn't plant evidence, who did? Even though the whole investigation reeked of corruption and lies, I still wanted to hear other theories on what actually happened. Too bad the judge wouldn't allow any of that talk in the courtroom.

That being said, I don't trust Halbach's brother any further than I could throw him. He and the ex-boyfriend's anecdote of hacking her wireless account and voicemail seemed awfully suspicious, especially the part about the deleted voicemails.

Ok, I can't not discuss this, so I'll use the spoiler button thing.

Spoiler

That was super fishy. As good as the defense team was, their cross examination in regards to Halbach's posthumously deleted voice messages didn't go far enough. At the very least they should have pressured him into admitting to erasing them or led him into contradicting himself in some way. The fact that the ex-boyfriend wasn't even considered a person of interest while she was still missing is odd to say the least. In a missing persons case, the boyfriend or ex-boyfriend is always top of the list. It was obvious that he had problems with her current living situation with that guy and it follows that he was probably stalking her. He probably had access to her voicemail for quite some time. My guess is the erased messages were of the ex making threats or behaving in a way that would cast suspicion upon himself. That doesn't mean he was her killer, but it was a lost opportunity on the part of the defense.

Another wasted opportunity, and probably the most suspicious inconsistency in the whole trial, was the call placed by Sergeant Colborn to HQ running Halbach's plate a full two days before the Rav was found on Avery's property. I was shocked that the defense let go of that during cross. The implication could be put forward that Colburn may have found the Rav with Halbach's body and prepared it for display on Avery's property. He would have had two days to pull that off. Plenty of time. Because of the conflict of interest due to the lawsuit, Colburn et al would need a citizen to find the Rav on Avery's lot so that there wouldn't be doubt cast upon the evidence. Didn't it seem a bit easy to find to you? The ex basically gave that lady a camera and pointed her straight to it. My suspicion is that Colburn approached the ex, who was leading the citizen search, saying that the Rav was on Avery's lot, but if the department found it, it would get thrown out due to conflict during trial.

 

[friskinator]

Ok, I can't not discuss this, so I'll use the spoiler button thing.

Spoiler

That was super fishy. As good as the defense team was, their cross examination in regards to Halbach's posthumously deleted voice messages didn't go far enough. At the very least they should have pressured him into admitting to erasing them or led him into contradicting himself in some way. The fact that the ex-boyfriend wasn't even considered a person of interest while she was still missing is odd to say the least. In a missing persons case, the boyfriend or ex-boyfriend is always top of the list. It was obvious that he had problems with her current living situation with that guy and it follows that he was probably stalking her. He probably had access to her voicemail for quite some time. My guess is the erased messages were of the ex making threats or behaving in a way that would cast suspicion upon himself. That doesn't mean he was her killer, but it was a lost opportunity on the part of the defense.

Another wasted opportunity, and probably the most suspicious inconsistency in the whole trial, was the call placed by Sergeant Colborn to HQ running Halbach's plate a full two days before the Rav was found on Avery's property. I was shocked that the defense let go of that during cross. The implication could be put forward that Colburn may have found the Rav with Halbach's body and prepared it for display on Avery's property. He would have had two days to pull that off. Plenty of time. Because of the conflict of interest due to the lawsuit, Colburn et al would need a citizen to find the Rav on Avery's lot so that there wouldn't be doubt cast upon the evidence. Didn't it seem a bit easy to find to you? The ex basically gave that lady a camera and pointed her straight to it. My suspicion is that Colburn approached the ex, who was leading the citizen search, saying that the Rav was on Avery's lot, but if the department found it, it would get thrown out due to conflict during trial.

Yes, that phone call was indeed strange. It was obvious that Colborn was looking at the Rav in person when that happened.

This case has so many questions that will probably never be answered - my brain has been in overdrive since last night trying to process it all. I hope someone (maybe the filmmakers) releases a book someday that goes into even more detail. And let's hope that someone finally develops an accurate blood test to analyze that blood in the Rav.

 

[petrus61]

No spoilers up in here please! I'm trying my best not to read any Wikipedia articles or anything.

 

[Matt O]

Yes, that phone call was indeed strange. It was obvious that Colborn was looking at the Rav in person when that happened.

This case has so many questions that will probably never be answered - my brain has been in overdrive since last night trying to process it all. I hope someone (maybe the filmmakers) releases a book someday that goes into even more detail. And let's hope that someone finally develops an accurate blood test to analyze that blood in the Rav.

Same here. My mind has been trying to connect everything all day. Another reason it was such a good doc, while it was certainly told from a perspective that favored Avery's innocence, the filmmakers did an excellent job of allowing us to come to our own conclusions.

My current conclusion is:

Spoiler

The jealous ex killed her and certain members of Manitowoc sheriffs dept made a 38 million dollar problem go away after finding her Rav and body.

Also, my heart breaks for Brendan. Poor kid. Wow.

 

[friskinator]

Same here. My mind has been trying to connect everything all day. Another reason it was such a good doc, while it was certainly told from a perspective that favored Avery's innocence, the filmmakers did an excellent job of allowing us to come to our own conclusions.

My current conclusion is:

Spoiler

The jealous ex killed her and certain members of Manitowoc sheriffs dept made a 38 million dollar problem go away after finding her Rav and body.

Also, my heart breaks for Brendan. Poor kid. Wow.

My conclusion is basically the same, but I really don't have any solid guesses as to who committed the crime. I have hunches, but that's all.

My heart also broke for Brendan. So sad.

 

[Matt O]

My conclusion is basically the same, but I really don't have any solid guesses as to who committed the crime. I have hunches, but that's all.

My heart also broke for Brendan. So sad.

Ok I'm tired of the spoiler button, so I'll let fly with the open spoilers.

Currently, I suspect the ex of committing the crime alone. We never did find out who was harassing Halbach on the phone. Remember how her boss testified that someone was making repeated unwanted phone calls to her, but no investigation went into who was making them? Now consider that she was living with a new male "roommate". The ex was jealous and probably stalking her, filling up her voicemail and then accessing her voicemail to delete stuff, showing up at her place like he did the day she disappeared, generally harassing her. I'd say he had motive and opportunity. My guess is that he shot her, put her in the back of her Rav and drove it somewhere secluded and abandoned it, not even thinking of framing Avery.

Colburn finds the Rav and sees an opportunity to make the department's troubles go away. Halbach's cremains were found in more than one location, one of those locations was not even on Avery property but at a gravel pit some distance away. This suggests that her body was burned elsewhere and then moved to Avery's property. I think Colburn et al did that part after finding Rav and body where the ex had left it. They then tipped the brother and ex who were leading the citizen search so that the sheriff's department wouldn't have to set foot on Avery land. I think that is why the brother appeared so shifty the whole time, he understood that he would have to lie about how they found the Rav in order to keep it as evidence.

 

[friskinator]

Ok I'm tired of the spoiler button, so I'll let fly with the open spoilers.

Currently, I suspect the ex of committing the crime alone. We never did find out who was harassing Halbach on the phone. Remember how her boss testified that someone was making repeated unwanted phone calls to her, but no investigation went into who was making them? Now consider that she was living with a new male "roommate". The ex was jealous and probably stalking her, filling up her voicemail and then accessing her voicemail to delete stuff, showing up at her place like he did the day she disappeared, generally harassing her. I'd say he had motive and opportunity. My guess is that he shot her, put her in the back of her Rav and drove it somewhere secluded and abandoned it, not even thinking of framing Avery.

Colburn finds the Rav and sees an opportunity to make the department's troubles go away. Halbach's cremains were found in more than one location, one of those locations was not even on Avery property but at a gravel pit some distance away. This suggests that her body was burned elsewhere and then moved to Avery's property. I think Colburn et al did that part after finding Rav and body where the ex had left it. They then tipped the brother and ex who were leading the citizen search so that the sheriff's department wouldn't have to set foot on Avery land. I think that is why the brother appeared so shifty the whole time, he understood that he would have to lie about how they found the Rav in order to keep it as evidence.

That certainly sounds as plausible as any theory I've come up with. Although I don't know how the actual killer would have erased all their DNA/fingerprints/etc from the Rav, unless the police wiped it down after they moved it, then added Avery's blood from the vial. We'll probably never know what really happened.

 

[Matt O]

You are right we may never know what really happened and I probably shouldn't be throwing accusations around. Bad form. Let's just say that if I were investigating, I would start where most of these investigations begin. With the ex.

IIRC, the Rav had no fingerprints in it at all, suggesting that it had been wiped. Which makes the blood even more suspicious. Avery is no brainiac, but methodically wipe the whole thing down for your prints but leave your blood? Hm. No.

 

[IPA]

Just finished it. A lot of it didn't add up, and a lot of the way the police handled it was really fishy. I'm not sure how much bias was put into the documentary, I'd wager there were some parts left out that might make it seem a little more balanced. But that's how these things work.

The handling of Brendan made me feel sick, manipulating someone with developmental issues was terrible.