Manufacturers have given up

[Deleted member 165050]

Will it be a paradigm shift that synergizes deliverables and gives an outside the box user experience? That's a big ask.

As long as they can objectivise imperatives and maximise component synchronicity, it's doable.

 

[cchorney]

I'm a ham radio operator and a broadcast technician. I guess that makes me a double dog radio junkie?
And as a double dog radio junkie I would like to point out that you clearly neglected to mention Class C.
Not that it has anything to do with audio, but my standing in the Royal Order of the Wouff Hong would most assuredly be in jeopardy, where after I might suffer the Rettysnitch, had I not made mention.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I wonder how many of us bass players are also licensed radio operators. There's probably a TB club for that, lol.

73, kb1ziz

 

[Mechanical]

If the amplifiers work by generating a train of square pulses of fixed amplitude but varying width and separation, then they may be assumed to be digital. As in, there are no other values than zero and the fixed amplitude. In my line of business (www.908devices.com), I would consider that a digital signal. After all, a digital signal is just 0s and 1s processed in a linear fashion. It is possible in this signal train to sync that signal to a digital clock and you would never have to convert that signal to analog.

Anyone who tells you different is FOS. I've literally forgotten more about electronics than most people know.

/end thread.

 

[agedhorse]

@Mechanical

Sorry, I disagree. There are infinite number of states of a PWM signal, the time duration of pulse width is a state and it's purely analog. Just because a signal has 2 amplitude states does not make it digital, there is another dimension to consider.

As far as being FOS, maybe you have forgotten your manners as well as your electronics?

PS... I'm an EE that works with this stuff all the time in this industry. I'm not FOS.

 

[cchorney]

When the people who invented HD radio (Digital Radio) were asked what HD stood for, they said it didn’t stand for anything. As it turns out High Definition (HD) TV was just hitting the airwaves about the same time. The HD radio folks were just riding the HD wave of excitement that was creating a buzz in the television market.

When my wife bought her Subaru Outback in 2013 or 2014, I went with her but was quite bored, as I really didn't care what she got for a car or what options. But as the salesman was droning on about blah blah blah something caught my attention. He used the term "High Definition Radio". I asked him what he was talking about, and he said the car had "HD radio", and it was better than regular radio because it was "high definition". I explained to him that the "HD" didn't stand for "High Definition" but rather "Hybrid Digital", and it's named that way because stations can send a digital signal or an analog signal. I didn't deep dive into how digital wasn't better than analog, especially when stations would split the signal bandwidth 3 ways to provide WXXX-1, WXXX-2, and WXXX-3 instead of just WXXX. Fast forward to about a month ago, my wife is back at the dealership looking at something new, we happen to get the same salesman, and I couldn't help myself - I asked if the car she's looking at has "High Definition Radio" and he immediately got that "hey wait a minute look". Yep, he remembered me as the "Hybrid Digital" guy, and he said that ever since then he described the radio system correctly lol.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Anyone who tells you different is FOS. I've literally forgotten more about electronics than most people know.

/end thread.

Now that’s arrogance. You must be a delight to work with.

 

[Bander]

I'd say, class D gets a bad rap, but its the repercussion of over-marketing the technology with promises of more power, more range, less distortion, smaller package, less cost, less weight all at the same time - superior in every way! lol. I personally like my new class D combo a lot - but its not superior in every way to my other bass amps, predictably. I think perception is swinging back, with reasonable expectations, and a more accurate understanding of what class D products can and can't do.

 

[StatesideRambler]

I am a bit surprised they are pushing the "digital" amps. As shown by multiple threads on TB, digital has a bad connotation for a lot of people. I would think that the marketing research would have found this. However, maybe the research shows the general public loves digital.

People love vocabulary but the work that goes into understanding vocabulary ... not so much. TB members are a small fraction of bass afficionados so even if everyone on TB "got it" there would still be a larger population of those who don't.

The Wikipedia description of PWM is this, which may account for the use of the term “digital” when talking about Class D:

The idea that wikipedia is accepted as authoritative frightens me. I gather that there is no barrier to entry for writers there. Anyone who's registered can log in and submit or edit an article. There are many [to be kind] strange assertions there.

 

[StatesideRambler]

I'd say, class D gets a bad rap, but its the repercussion of over-marketing the technology with promises of more power, more range, less distortion, smaller package, less cost, less weight all at the same time - superior in every way! lol. I personally like my new class D combo a lot - but its not superior in every way to my other bass amps, predictably. I think perception is swinging back, with reasonable expectations, and a more accurate understanding of what class D products can and can't do.

Peoples' perceptions would be defensible if people would percieve by listening to the equipment instead of by reading on the Internet.

"Frankly, I’m suspicious of anyone who has a strong opinion on a complicated issue."
Invalid Link Removed, The Dilbert Blog

 

[gln1955]

If the amplifiers work by generating a train of square pulses of fixed amplitude but varying width and separation, then they may be assumed to be digital. As in, there are no other values than zero and the fixed amplitude. In my line of business (www.908devices.com), I would consider that a digital signal. After all, a digital signal is just 0s and 1s processed in a linear fashion. It is possible in this signal train to sync that signal to a digital clock and you would never have to convert that signal to analog.

Anyone who tells you different is FOS. I've literally forgotten more about electronics than most people know.

/end thread.

As agedhorse said, for something to be digital it first has to be quantal. Continuous function= not digital.

Maybe you should go back and remember some of what you forgot, or maybe learn it in the first place, before spewing your wrong ideas and insulting those who know better.

 

[arbiterusa]

Some of us are Ham radio operators, my call sign K5KNM.

I mentioned that because I am as well. I do find it interesting that hams do learn this stuff and learn it correctly.

 

[Al Kraft]

I mentioned that because I am as well. I do find it interesting that hams do learn this stuff and learn it correctly.

Funny how tests and licensing tend to create a general level of competence among those who studied the material and passed the tests.

 

[fourstringburn]

I mentioned that because I am as well. I do find it interesting that hams do learn this stuff and learn it correctly.

I figured you might have been since you referenced Ham radio operators as an analogy in your post.

 

[fourstringburn]

I wonder how many of us bass players are also licensed radio operators. There's probably a TB club for that, lol.

73, kb1ziz

Looks like 3 so far...

 

[Bander]

As agedhorse said, for something to be digital it first has to be quantal. Continuous function= not digital.

I don't know, are all signals either analog or digital? If we have a continuous signal composed of off/on, 0 or 1, max/min, isn't that digital? Isn't a continuous sine wave still digital if it went thru an A/D conversion?

dig·i·tal
ˈdijidl/
adjective

1. 1.
   (of signals or data) expressed as series of the digits 0 and 1, typically represented by values of a physical quantity such as voltage or magnetic polarization.

quan·tal
ˈkwän(t)l/
adjective
TECHNICAL

1. composed of discrete units; varying in steps rather than continuously.
   "a quantal release of neurotransmitter"
   • PHYSICS
     relating to a quantum or quanta, or to quantum theory.
   • PHYSIOLOGY
     relating to or denoting an all-or-none response or state.

 

[Kro]

Isn't a continuous sine wave still digital if it went thru an A/D conversion?

I think this might be the big question: is what these amps are doing really considered at any point to be A/D conversion?

I had always understood no, but I'm very intrigued by this discussion. I'll definitely keep sitting on the sidelines as this discussion progresses trying to learn all I can, as to me this is all pretty fascinating.

 

[agedhorse]

Digital (ignoring tri-state or multi-state logic) would be a signal of 2 states, either on or off, one or zero, etc. that individually or in combination (as in a byte or word) represent a value that represents a piece of data that equates to something else.

The problem with calling a PWM signal "digital" is that it's information (or any information) is not contained in the on and off states of the pulse train but in the infinitely varying time portion of the pulse train.

In a digital signal, there is no information contained in the time portion of the signal (other than to typically identify the beginning or end of a piece of data or sequence of data in a serial string).

I'm using an older school simplistic definition since we are comparing to an older school PWM process that has been around for at least as long, or longer than the digital technology that we are comparing to.