So the schematics could only go to a licensed qualified repair company? Or anybody?
If there were a problem with the schematic resulting in a hobbyist getting injured, is the company liable?
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Markbass Amp repair?
- Thread starter BassSaxMan
- Start date
So the schematics could only go to a licensed qualified repair company? Or anybody?
If there were a problem with the schematic resulting in a hobbyist getting injured, is the company liable?
Go back and look at your earlier post, Jimmy. If people weren't acting like it was only a pot replacement he wouldn't have had to repeat that it was more than that.
Again, what were the circumstances of the ONE $415 repair or do details not matter?
Give me the breakdown on what that board replacement should cost? To make a statement like that you should know. I wouldn't make a statement like that without knowing. I've done plenty of repairs as a tech and all of that matters IME.
If you can't do that, you're talking through your hat. No offense.
BTW every check the prices in Europe for Markbass kit... you know, where they're made? We get a big break here on the purchase new... maybe some of us are expecting the same break on a repair?
That was not my point. If you're throwing out a $600 LMII, it would've had to have been when it was NEW AND UNDER WARRANTY. Otherwise it wasn't still a $600 amp... it was only worth $330.
circumstances...ok, it was a while back, but if i remember, a dude sold an lmii that arrived broken. i don't know what the problem was but it needed a board swap. the seller paid for it, then found it was $415. so he basically gave the guy an amp.
board price...did you not see the quote from mike dimin where he said that was out of line? ok, so he's competing in the same market as markbass, but come on, dude. you and i both know that surface mount boards just plain don't cost that much. even adding a hefty profit they shouldn't cost that much.
europe...i really don't care what they cost elsewhere. i live here and buy my stuff here.
anyway, it's a lot of fun arguing with you about subjects neither of us are going to change our minds over
board price...did you not see the quote from mike dimin where he said that was out of line? ok, so he's competing in the same market as markbass, but come on, dude. you and i both know that surface mount boards just plain don't cost that much. even adding a hefty profit they shouldn't cost that much.
europe...i really don't care what they cost elsewhere. i live here and buy my stuff here.
anyway, it's a lot of fun arguing with you about subjects neither of us are going to change our minds over
'broken" covers a lot of ground, Jimmy.
Sorry, dude... I don't know that. And I know that guessing is really poiintless and only stirs the pot. Now if Mike has experience repairing Italian amps with Italian parts, cool (no offense to Mike of course).
The boards don't cost that much... so how much do they cost? You don't know. You just know whatthey don't cost.
Here's how I don't come to a valuation decision:
1. When I have no idea what the manufacturer's costs to build are... or any other costs involved for that matter.
I'm willing to bet that no one in this thread knows this yet look at how many keep talking as if they do... or worse, it doesn't matter.
They make the parts there... I know you don't care about that either. For others it's something pertinent to consider.
anyway, it's a lot of fun arguing with you about subjects neither of us are going to change our minds over
I do this for the readers... I know you won't change your mind... no matter what.
Seriously, you could substitute any amp company's name for Markbass and I'd have the same stance. Informed outrage, cool. This stuff...
they don't make the parts in italy, dude! nobody does. that's all done in china and russia just like everyone else.
Lets look at it from another angle. One can purchase a new MarkBass LMIII for $535.00 shipped to your door.
Now how could the amp be so cheap and the replacements of any of the boards be so expensive?
I bet the cost on any of those boards is 5 bucks each tops. They buy them thousands at a time and get them cheap. They ship in containers for pennies.
The steep repair cost is the shipping on the replacement parts from Italy to here and the hefty markup.
Now how could the amp be so cheap and the replacements of any of the boards be so expensive?
I bet the cost on any of those boards is 5 bucks each tops. They buy them thousands at a time and get them cheap. They ship in containers for pennies.
The steep repair cost is the shipping on the replacement parts from Italy to here and the hefty markup.
Now lets further break it down.
I can buy the LMIII for $535.00 shipped to my door. What is GC or MF buying it for $200.00?
Now you gonna tell me that these boards are expensive?
I tell you they are cheap, very cheap.
I can buy the LMIII for $535.00 shipped to my door. What is GC or MF buying it for $200.00?
Now you gonna tell me that these boards are expensive?
I tell you they are cheap, very cheap.
Not sure about the parts. TBer Vic visited their production facility in Italy and said he was pretty blown away. Not sure if they are using the typical B&O boards like most others, or if they have some sort of in-house manufacturing. Really doesn't matter, but again, more conjecture without really knowing
The key here again is that this 'cost of replacing the entire board' thing is all based on one example from a couple of years ago, and my guess is the pricing posted over and over again from that one board replacement is not reality today.
They have a completely different service and support system in place now (from someones previous post above), with a different supplier.
The wonderful thing is these things are so rock solid, that very few have had to have service (hence the limited information and all this conjecture based on very limited information). It will become clear in the next couple of years when there are some examples of repair need and cost out of warranty in the current system.
Again, great service and support is service and support that is rarely if ever needed IMO and IME.
That being said, if getting a schematic is very important to a player, it is clear that Markbass would and should not be an option. It seems there are other companies that will supply that, if that is of high importance to a player. Lots of good stuff out there right now, so that if any one thing is bothersome to a player/purchaser about a company or product, there are many other good options.
One thing is clear, you will never get the personal service and support from a company who has its headquarters on a different continent versus a more 'local boutique company'. Can't really argue with that. So, to me, this has to be balanced with the reputation/quality/reliability of the gear. Would I buy a GK amp if I lived in Europe.... no way. Would I buy a Markbass amp living in the US.... well, for me, yes. Others, might say no... too risky down the road.
BTW yes indeed the $415.00 board swap did happen. We all were right here and witnessed the situation from beginning to end. I could not believe it. For another 100 bucks the guy could have had a new amp.
And the $300.00 pot/board repair was real.
If you are going to use information to support MarkBass on this argument, I'd steer clear of those two cases because they were real and do not back the MB side of argumentation up.
And the $300.00 pot/board repair was real.
If you are going to use information to support MarkBass on this argument, I'd steer clear of those two cases because they were real and do not back the MB side of argumentation up.
Wow, I didn't think this would generate such a long discussion. From my position, $300 was a lot for the repair but cheaper then buying a new amp. I am taking a chance that the amp will last a long time as long as I don't drop it again . While it was a high price to pay, it was my carelesness that caused it.
I really, really like the LMII as compared to the other similar micro amps on the market, so I guess it was worth it for me. If something else happens to the amp (it is out of warranty), I guess I will trash it and consider my next option. But until that time comes, I am sticking with it. I find that the less time I worry about the next best great amp the more time I have to work on music.
FYI, the LMII/Mark Bass 2x10 speaker box replaced a GK 2x10 combo that I had for several years. I tired of the GK sound, did a survey of what was available at the time in my area and to places I traveled on business, and settled on the Mark Bass setup.
. While it was a high price to pay, it was my carelesness that caused it.I really, really like the LMII as compared to the other similar micro amps on the market, so I guess it was worth it for me. If something else happens to the amp (it is out of warranty), I guess I will trash it and consider my next option. But until that time comes, I am sticking with it. I find that the less time I worry about the next best great amp the more time I have to work on music.
FYI, the LMII/Mark Bass 2x10 speaker box replaced a GK 2x10 combo that I had for several years. I tired of the GK sound, did a survey of what was available at the time in my area and to places I traveled on business, and settled on the Mark Bass setup.
It is a complicated issue. For example, my TecAmp stuff is great and I love it. I had an issue with one of my Puma heads, and the service and support was great... but.... I still had to ship it back to Germany (at their cost... great company).
It's all about balancing all this different stuff (tone, price, reliability, cost, after sale service, warranty details, etc., etc.). If I could find an amp that sounded as good (to me) from a local boutique manufacturer (regardless of cost), I would buy it in a minute. Unfortunately, my three favorite amp companies are in Denmark, Germany, and Italy
We shall see what happens down the road as the MB brand is more established in the US, and the thousands of units they have sold move out of warranty in large numbers.
This is not helping this discussion. What is the source of your information? Do you know this for a fact if not you should not have put it in here. By the way I have no dog in this fight. I am retired from the electronic repair / computer industry and board replacement has been a viable repair technique since the 70s...nothing new. I know nothing about the inside of a LM II but I have been inside of gear that just to get to the board in question may have taken several man hours which I charged the customer appropriately. If you want "dirt cheap" repairs, get the years of training required, the years of experience required and buy the expensive test equipment required then do it yourself!
Let's see how they treat me on my warranty repair..I faxed in my request for a RA to the new service company friday. I know this is going to be a longer process than promised at purchase....walk it into GC and leave with a new one. Leaves me using my backup rig for at least a month.
Huh? Did I miss something? So the swap broke for new under warranty policy is no longer the case with GC and MarkBass?
Ahhh...I did look at that back when it was posted. But miss read it thinking it was an out of warranty provider. That's kind of a bummer. That swap out policy was about the best warranty deal around...for first 2 years anyway.
Funny, I was just talking to a GC manager Sat. afternoon who seamed to know what he was talking about w/MarkBass anyway. He did mention there are now more out of warranty service centers coming online, other than just that 1 in Massachusetts that everyone in the country had to use. However this manager thought the old swap out system was still in place.
Let's, for a moment, remove the emotional issue and look at it a bit more obectively:
1. If an LMII costs 535.00 US. it means that the dealer cost is approx 350 (GC might get a better deal due to the exclusive nature of their relationship - perhaps another 10%)
2. Considering that MB need to make profit, based on industry standard, their manufacturing cost is in the range of $175.00 US to $250.00
Now what is inside:
1. Power amp board
2. Preamp board
3. Chassis
4. Faceplate
5. Wire harness
6. knobs
7. A few miscellaneous things
If, as KJ speculated, that they might be using the B&O Power Amp- the minimum cost on that is about 100.00 (at volume discount). That leaves, at most, 150.00 for the remaining components. The Preamp Board is probably could runa nywhere from 35 - 60 US depending on the complexity of the board, the Chassis and faceplate around 60.00 The knobs, wire harness, etc, less than 10.00.
For many repairs, a board swap is the easiest, most cost effective solution. If a component level repair is going to cost more than the swap, it does not make sense to do anything else but swap it out. Even if the tech charges a minimum hour labor (at, let's say 80.00 per hour) - a repair should cost no more that 180.00 for a power amp swap and 160 for a preamp board swap
Mike
1. If an LMII costs 535.00 US. it means that the dealer cost is approx 350 (GC might get a better deal due to the exclusive nature of their relationship - perhaps another 10%)
2. Considering that MB need to make profit, based on industry standard, their manufacturing cost is in the range of $175.00 US to $250.00
Now what is inside:
1. Power amp board
2. Preamp board
3. Chassis
4. Faceplate
5. Wire harness
6. knobs
7. A few miscellaneous things
If, as KJ speculated, that they might be using the B&O Power Amp- the minimum cost on that is about 100.00 (at volume discount). That leaves, at most, 150.00 for the remaining components. The Preamp Board is probably could runa nywhere from 35 - 60 US depending on the complexity of the board, the Chassis and faceplate around 60.00 The knobs, wire harness, etc, less than 10.00.
For many repairs, a board swap is the easiest, most cost effective solution. If a component level repair is going to cost more than the swap, it does not make sense to do anything else but swap it out. Even if the tech charges a minimum hour labor (at, let's say 80.00 per hour) - a repair should cost no more that 180.00 for a power amp swap and 160 for a preamp board swap
Mike
and BOOM!!! take that, bitches!
listen, i'm all for making a profit. i certainly don't work my job for free. but there comes a point where the profit margin is grossly excessive. and that's all i'm saying.
