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Markbass CMD 102p Speaker Break-in?

#21
SJan3 said:
Sir, you think like a technician and I am far from one. I can only apply what limited common sense I might have here. I think like a musician. Emotional and really not overly concerned with how things work. I only care that they work to my satisfaction.
So, thank you for the education.
I'll be less concerned in the future regarding equipment break in.
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Actually, I think like an engineer and designer of audio electronics and speakers. I also deal with facts in addition to all the emotional things that go into a design.

If you only care that something works to your satisfaction, then go for it and don't worry about facts. It's way easier that way. There are entire industries that profit from the emotional purchase model.

Handyman said:
That's good to know, especially given there are places selling "broken in" speakers for an upcharge.

Does this property of break-in period not really being a thing also apply to guitar speakers? There are folks who SWEAR certain magical procedures need to be followed before various Celestion guitar speakers sound right. I'm not not anal retentive enough to care, but I'm awfully curious.
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Good question.

Guitar speakers are a little bit different in that they use a different and lossier suspension (for a given displacement).

While magical, mystical, crystal infused procedures are promoted by some (they usually sell the magic, the mystic and crystals too... go figure), there is some truth to guitar speaker break-in but it too is usually overstated to a significant extent.

Play the amp for a few hours and you are 99% of the way there, don't worry about it, that time is better spent practicing IMO and IME.
 
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#23
SJan3 said:
No, I don't need to search.
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itd-be-alot-cooler-if-you-did.jpg
 
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#24
agedhorse said:
Actually, I think like an engineer and designer of audio electronics and speakers. I also deal with facts in addition to all the emotional things that go into a design.

If you only care that something works to your satisfaction, then go for it and don't worry about facts. It's way easier that way. There are entire industries that profit from the emotional purchase model.


Good question.

Guitar speakers are a little bit different in that they use a different and lossier suspension (for a given displacement).

While magical, mystical, crystal infused procedures are promoted by some (they usually sell the magic, the mystic and crystals too... go figure), there is some truth to guitar speaker break-in but it too is usually overstated to a significant extent.

Play the amp for a few hours and you are 99% of the way there, don't worry about it, that time is better spent practicing IMO and IME.
Click to expand...
Most people won't buy unless they make an emotional connection with a product as well as it satisfying their musical needs. I know I consider both.
 
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#26
Markbass had a driver change I believe around 2016
So yes your 2014 version most likely has the original B&C drivers. Which are well known to sound better.

Newer drivers are lower cost stamp frame with neo magnet.

It's not a definite answer to the question.
But a feasible reason why the exact same amplifier combo sounds different. From 2 different time periods

The conversation has come up often in numerous markbass threads.
In general most prefer the earlier cast frame B&C drivers for sound quality.

Far as break in. A driver is what a driver is.
Should basically be the same from day one. And you should be able to play at high SPL straight out of the box. Without issue.

As noted, some drivers have a slight change in sound after a few hours of operation. A paper surround has a black goop applied to the surround edge. And will loosen up after few hours of operation.

I've bought , tested and heard hundreds of drivers and the noticeable difference between "new" and " broke in " speakers is minimal or not even audible.

The only big difference I've really heard is with very cheap speakers. Which are gooped to holy heck. Or with typical guitar speakers that slightly open up after a few hours of usage.

Med to high quality speakers for live audio or bass applications. Sound the same from day one. And I've pulled brand new subs and full range drivers from the box. And pounded them at high power for live events with absolutely no issue.
 
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#31
Nebadon2000 said:
They changed 'original' cast B&C late 2012 and switched to 'Stamped Yellow line' that has been confirmed with photo's here. And I have a 2013 that has 'stamped' version. View attachment 3873036 View attachment 3873037
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So we’ve confirmed that both of the OPs combos have the later stamped yellow line drivers. Would any of the Italian built combos have these or did they change drivers at the same time manufacturing moved to Indonesia?
 
#32
TN WOODMAN said:
So we’ve confirmed that both of the OPs combos have the later stamped yellow line drivers. Would any of the Italian built combos have these or did they change drivers at the same time manufacturing moved to Indonesia?
Click to expand...

My 2013 CMD 121p was built in Italy with class D amp and Stamped speaker whether they are 'exactly' the same I am not sure; B&C did say there CL64 was an alternative and "Current" model to Cast HPL64 so I guess it is possible mine has stamped B&C but I doubt it. From what I have gleaned so far it seems they redesigned speakers [in house] and amp while still in Italy just before going to Indonesia and continued that design there.

The Markbass 'Yellow Line' looks very similar to B&C 12 OR 10 CL64 [SEE MY OTHER POST]
12CL64%2000%20sito.png


Obviously I am assuming the same was done with 2x10 and 1x15 combo's and cabinets.

I was also told older design takes 3 seconds to hear turn on click when pushing power switch and newer design takes about 8 seconds; mine takes 8
 
#34
This is post from Basschat from Marco himself;




"Sincerely I am not writing you because there is some disaster, my brand is in 56 country and in all country we are a top brand, i want only that all customers have the rigth information, so next Monday i will write you from my iffice with all new weith and all info you need or you like to have. I read that we are using a MDF! Never i used MDF! Also except 102 that was my decision all other yellow line is more ligth, only black line is with standard speakers to go in the market around 500 euro where my brand was not before. Also we have also kodels made in Italy like TTE 500 or Big Bang or some other cab when we needs more item for production. The speakers are the same that i used in Italy."

"Some years ago in Italy i decovered a real nice Wood chipboard of poplar, it has the same weight of plywood but was more cheap!
So some of my models was made with this material.
Now i decided to come back for all my model to use poplar plywood, is the best choise for me and now i decovered a very good one!!
It is important that you know, as some of you wrote that on my web there is that i can change my specs any time.
This not only for legal matter but because my production is always in "improvement mode" i want to say that if i decover or decide to change some specks because we improve our know hiw or exoerience, i will put on all my products, so it is possible that some heads of 3 years ago is not the same today! For example we decovered after some years that there was some possibility to increase the function of our amplifier and we did it in all amps that we use.
I hope that what i like to say is clear."

Some excerpts;
"there is only a cabinet that is Traveler 102p that i decided to make in PW ( Particle Board), and is the only case where the weight is little more that before."

"another important matter: i read that some peoples ask to to some test with my cab, please remember that all cabinet has some small difference also if it is the same model!
this because the speakers ( all speakers not only mine) has a dispersion around 20 % in his spec; also the position in the room can change the result in amazing way! i have years of experience on this, so please put a great attention when you hear difference!"

PS; B&C Claims the Stamped CL series has same overall performance of discontinued HPL but more cost effective and higher power rating.
 
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#36
Steve here. I started the thread, appreciate all your input and would like to offer some follow-up observations.

First of all, other than playing bass for 50 years (yes, I started when I was 16 years old but that doesn't mean I am any good), I have designed and built sound systems for bands, churches other and venues for about 45 years with an emphasis on clarity--not just volume. Not to brag, but for the purposes of this discussion, I believe acheiving accuracy and clarity of sound reproduction has been my strength. I learned a long time ago that you can deliver a significant SPL in live performances without complaints of being too loud if the quality of the sound is good. And, the converse is also true--poor quality sound can sound result in complaints even at moderate SPLs.

Anyway, I have been very pleased with several of the Markbass amps and still use a Little Mark II head to demo speakers for potential customers due to it's clarity.

What I specifically like about the Markbass CMD102P is the extended low range as I play a 5-string with a drop-A tuning. This amp delivers a strong and accurate 27hz when flat on the floor (not angled up or in a corner). If you have any doubts listen to one yourself and check it with a quality RTA although RTAs don't tell the whole story.

My concern was that when I bought the second (almost new) CMD102P that only had an hour or so on it, the sound was not as clear or deep, for lack of a better description. Yes--same location, same sound source, etc.

So, here is what I found and believe to be true:

After about 3 hours of "break-in" with full range music at >90db, the sound was discernibly better and much less "tight" sounding. I suspect the speaker surrounds were still a little stiff and just needed some motion for awhile to loosen up and be more responsive. Anyway, it worked and I couldn't be happier now.

Also, since the CMD102P has an XLR input, I would even consider using it as a powered floor monitor especially for keys, bass or drums. My only suggestion to improve it wound be using a dynamic horn driver for smoother highs--such as in the Markbass Standard 102HF or better yet, the one that was in the discontinued 151RJ.

Thanks again,

Steve
 
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#37
Well, there ya go. A little play time got the results needed. Enjoy the amp!
That's how I played in my GK 212NEO cab--played some full range music (house and 80s Hip Hop) through it for about 4 hours at moderately loud gig volume. Couldn't really say that it made a difference, as I didn't do any measurements and before and after tests, but I did enjoy bumping the tunes in my basement. Cab sounded good!
 

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