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Markbass CMD 102p Speaker Break-in?

5Thumper

Gold Supporting Member
Supporting Member
May 25, 2020
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I bought a fairly new Markbass CMD102p (2020). I think it is okay but when compared to an older one (2014), it is noticeably not as loud, transparent or the same meaty low end with identical settings.

So, I am wondering if their is a break-in period and if it will get better with more use?

Or, did Markbass change something?

Any light someone could shed on this would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
Did you sit it in the same location, or is it just sitting somewhere near or even on the old one? You might just be hearing a floor or wall/coner coupling effect. Oh hearing it from a different angle or distance.


Thanks, actually i tried the same position and even swapped them to each other's position just to confirm.
 
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I bought a fairly new Markbass CMD102p (2020). I think it is okay but when compared to an older one (2014), it is noticeably not as loud, transparent or the same meaty low end with identical settings.

So, I am wondering if their is a break-in period and if it will get better with more use?

Or, did Markbass change something?

Any light someone could shed on this would be appreciated.

Thanks
It's always a good idea to give some break in time for speakers to "open up". I have the same cabinet bought in late 2019.
Seemed a bit lack luster at 1st but now it sounds great. I'd attribute that to break in time.
 
So, not necessary? I thought I should put some time on it before a gig.
Not at all in my extensive experience.

If the speaker parameters were to change enough that the characteristics of the speaker became that different, it would actually be indicating that there is an ongoing and continuing deterioration of the speaker.

Most speakers are designed for stability over many thousands of hours, and while a very small change may occur, it's rarely audible (though can be measured through the electro-mechanical parameters of the speaker before and after).

I have tested many speakers specifically for this attribute, this is one way to determine the short and long term mechanical power handling of a driver... by TS parameter shifts.
 
1st of all I am a Mark Bass user and fan of the brand. I have a Jeff Berlin Combo and NY 151 extension cab I bought new when 1st released. Some of the only music gear I own with zero buyer’s remorse and still loving it.

I haven’t had an opportunity to compare with the newer Indonesian built gear-and have no bias or snobbery the Italian is better-the Indo may be better built in fact-I don’t know. I’m sure it’s built to Marco’s specificities and theoretically design improvements incorporated.

In closing , I’m not an EE and don’t claim to understand all but as I understand the early LMIII amps were Class AB and now are Class D. Original drivers were built to spec by B&W and now in house in Indonesia.

Again, no clue how this translates better or worse or at all. I would like to know.
 
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Not at all in my extensive experience.

If the speaker parameters were to change enough that the characteristics of the speaker became that different, it would actually be indicating that there is an ongoing and continuing deterioration of the speaker.

Most speakers are designed for stability over many thousands of hours, and while a very small change may occur, it's rarely audible (though can be measured through the electro-mechanical parameters of the speaker before and after).

I have tested many speakers specifically for this attribute, this is one way to determine the short and long term mechanical power handling of a driver... by TS parameter shifts.
Well, I know that you know your stuff so I'll accept that. But It just seems sensible to allow the speaker cone to work at a moderate level before subjecting it to more demanding conditions.
Not dissimilar to a new car although I realize that break in periods have been minimized.
I'd not take a brand new cab out of the box to the stage.
That's just me.
 
Well, I know that you know your stuff so I'll accept that. But It just seems sensible to allow the speaker cone to work at a moderate level before subjecting it to more demanding conditions.
Not dissimilar to a new car although I realize that break in periods have been minimized.
I'd not take a brand new cab out of the box to the stage.
That's just me.
Why?

If you can answer this accurately, you will realize why not.

The entire suspension system of a speaker is nothing more than a (more or less) linear spring. Operated within its elastic region, it will work like that "forever" with little if any changes. Operate outside that region and the metal becomes damaged, fatigued and the spring no longer performs the same.

This is entirely different from a car engine, where you have sliding surfaces and there is friction and surface finish involved. There is none of this involved in a speaker (or the speaker has already failed).

Sensible only applies if the conditions apply.
 
Not at all in my extensive experience.

If the speaker parameters were to change enough that the characteristics of the speaker became that different, it would actually be indicating that there is an ongoing and continuing deterioration of the speaker.

Most speakers are designed for stability over many thousands of hours, and while a very small change may occur, it's rarely audible (though can be measured through the electro-mechanical parameters of the speaker before and after).

I have tested many speakers specifically for this attribute, this is one way to determine the short and long term mechanical power handling of a driver... by TS parameter shifts.

Yeah, this is still a very live topic of debate. Eminence Speakers' tech blog says speaker break-in is no myth, but that's the only source of real authority on the topic that I can find still espousing that conclusion. Every other credentialed expert I've heard or read, and almost every other objective test, however rigorous, that I've seen done on speakers ranging from a few hundred to several thousand dollars, all agree with you; any difference, if not measurement noise, is imperceptible to human ears (less than a dB, the same standard used to match pairs).

Taking it easy on your speakers for the first few hours, and/or playing full-range sound recordings or pink noise through them, certainly won't hurt the speakers, but with one notable exception, the consensus is it's a waste of time.

So, that leaves us with the OP; a 2014 Markbass CMD102P and a 2020 CMD102P have significantly different volume and tone at identical settings. Why this happened is still open to discussion, and over a 6 year timespan involving moving production halfway around the world and making perhaps hundreds of thousands of these amps in the meantime, there are a lot of possible variables. However, the biggest one is the assumption that identical positions of the knobs are actually identical settings. Deviations from ideal spec in the gain potentiometers alone could explain volume differences like this.

That's why people who build these circuits, like pedal manufacturers trying to recreate vintage amps or effects pedals, don't do shootout-style tests with knobs in identical positions. That's a good start, but then they will tweak the controls until a single common point of measurement (i.e. a reference mic or dB meter) indicates both units actually are behaving identically (or as close as possible), before subjecting both of them to human ears. The eagle-eyed YouTube viewer then points out they aren't set identically so it's not a fair comparison, when in reality two vintage units, even with adjacent serial numbers, could require the same difference in settings to actually sound the same. If manufacturing tolerances were close enough that identical settings produced identical sounds between any two units, you'd be paying $2,000 for a Tubescreamer. The number of situations in which even having matched pairs of equipment actually makes a perceptible difference are very few, especially outside the recording studio.

In summary, turn up the 2020 amp's master volume or gain above where the 2014's is set. If you can get the same measured volume without clipping as the 2014, just at a higher setting on the dial, chalk it up to variances from ideal spec in some major component or two that determines actual preamp gain or master volume. Over 6 years, you might note an explicit spec revision designed to increase longevity at the cost of efficiency or maximum gain, but you'd likely need access to Markbass's internal R&D communications over 6 years to find it. In bocca al lupo.
 
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Even with Eminence speakers, the bass guitar and pro audio drivers do not shift either if operated reasonably. If not operated reasonably, any significant shift is towards premature failure.
(Some) Guitar speakers are a little different, the speaker suspension components and even the cone do not operate as a perfect spring system, this is because of how (particularly) the surround is fabricated. The cone materials are also generally different (heavier pulped paper cones are not all that common in guitar speakers), so the fibers within the cured adhesive/binder will break down a little bit.

This is likely where the myths started, both in the esoteric hi-fi world and in the guitar world, where there is a little bit of truth to it.
 
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Well might as well play it as much as possible for the next couple of weeks and revisit the comparison and either be a myth buster convert or confirm Eminence point of view [in your experience]

The 2014 amp has same D Class amp and In house 'Yellow Line' speakers as 2020. My 2013 CMD 112 does.
They seemed to stop using class A/B amp and B&C Speakers late 2012 early 2013 just before move to Indo.

IDK know if 2020 production amps may have different gain sensitivity or volume tracking for volume difference but Transparency and Low end difference should be concerning.
 
Why?

If you can answer this accurately, you will realize why not.

The entire suspension system of a speaker is nothing more than a (more or less) linear spring. Operated within its elastic region, it will work like that "forever" with little if any changes. Operate outside that region and the metal becomes damaged, fatigued and the spring no longer performs the same.

This is entirely different from a car engine, where you have sliding surfaces and there is friction and surface finish involved. There is none of this involved in a speaker (or the speaker has already failed).

Sensible only applies if the conditions apply.
Sir, you think like a technician and I am far from one. I can only apply what limited common sense I might have here. I think like a musician. Emotional and really not overly concerned with how things work. I only care that they work to my satisfaction.
So, thank you for the education.
I'll be less concerned in the future regarding equipment break in.
 
Not at all in my extensive experience.

If the speaker parameters were to change enough that the characteristics of the speaker became that different, it would actually be indicating that there is an ongoing and continuing deterioration of the speaker.

Most speakers are designed for stability over many thousands of hours, and while a very small change may occur, it's rarely audible (though can be measured through the electro-mechanical parameters of the speaker before and after).

I have tested many speakers specifically for this attribute, this is one way to determine the short and long term mechanical power handling of a driver... by TS parameter shifts.
That's good to know, especially given there are places selling "broken in" speakers for an upcharge.

Does this property of break-in period not really being a thing also apply to guitar speakers? There are folks who SWEAR certain magical procedures need to be followed before various Celestion guitar speakers sound right. I'm not not anal retentive enough to care, but I'm awfully curious.
 
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MarkBass did quit using the high quality B&C speakers a few years ago. They now use a cheaper stamped frame Chinese driver.

New Markbass speaker looks alot like this; [see link] B&C considered this Alternative/Current Model to Cast Speaker used in models before 2012 [12HPL64] The 10's have same designations CL and HPL.
https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/products/lf-driver/12-0/8/12cl64

Marco worked with B&C before Markbass and closely during connection with Markbass. I am guessing he learned something since his speaker looks so similar.

The 12HPL has price of $190.00 and 12CL has price of $125 Last I checked. Cheaper maybe, Cheap China? What evidence?
 
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MarkBass did quit using the high quality B&C speakers a few years ago. They now use a cheaper stamped frame Chinese driver.
Can anyone here document your claim that the newer speakers are "cheaper", and I read that to mean lower level of performance/sound quality. And, does location of mfg truly impact a speaker's performance, all other things being equal.
 
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Can anyone here document your claim that the newer speakers are "cheaper", and I read that to mean lower level of performance/sound quality. And, does location of mfg truly impact a speaker's performance, all other things being equal.

It's been covered to death right here on TalkBass for a number of years if you want to search for it.
 

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