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Double Bass Markbass F1

KJung

KJung

Supporting Member
Apr 9, 2005
44,589
1,594
Wisconsin
#1
Hello from EB land. I just received an F1 (they just started arriving in the US). Since you guys are all 'small and light' fanatics, here's a link to my review, that includes a picture.

My Rob Allen Mouse sounds GREAT with this head, so I think it might be more DB-friendly than the wonderful LMII, which is a little wider, warmer sounding than the more transparent 'class D' F1.

Just FYI if anyone is thinking about one of these.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371269
 
#6
Barcza said:
Yes I know, but I curious how it works without a preamp. I prefer go without additional preamp.
Click to expand...

Barcza,
Several acoustic players are using the Little Mark II with DB. I don't know if they use a buffer preamp or not. Personally, I'd never go with out one, because they really improve the sound of the bass. I always carry F Decks Pizeo Preamp, because it solves an infinite number of problems (impedance mismatch, phase correction, and low frequency roll off) As far as the F1 goes, I've seen one, but from my understanding they are better voiced for Electric Bass and cost more $799.00 vs $599.00 for the Little Mark II. IMHO

Ric
 
#7
I heard F1 the amp that really sounds close to WW. I dont know. With my current amp (GK NB150) and fishman FC I never had promlems with Phase, Low frequecy roll off and impedance. I have a fishman B1 preamp but I very rarely use becouse it add too mutch color to the sound.
 
#8
Barcza said:
I heard F1 the amp that really sounds close to WW. I dont know. With my current amp (GK NB150) and fishman FC I never had promlems with Phase, Low frequecy roll off and impedance. I have a fishman B1 preamp but I very rarely use becouse it add too mutch color to the sound.
Click to expand...

Although I've played through the F1 at Guitar Center and I liked it with electric bass, I don't know that it sounds like a Walter Woods. I own two of Walter's Amplifiers, a MI-400-8 and a ElectroAcoustic Ultra. Based on what little experience I have with the FI I'd have to say that they are voiced very differently than the Woods amplifiers.
The F1 is a very nice compact amplifier. The difference is that your GK has a 1 megohm input impedance so you probably don't need the Fishman buffer preamp. Unfortunately, the MarkBass has a 500 k ohm input impedance so you will probably need it with that amp. There is also the question of the VLF and VLE controls on the F1 some people love them and others don't care for them, especially with Double Bass.



Ric
 
#9
FWIW I have a Little Mark II (same preamp as the F1 I believe), and I really don't like it for double bass. Although it's a very solid amp with lots of headroom, I just don't like the way it sounds for DB. I have also tried the Little Mark II with a couple of different preamps, including fdeck's excellent HPF-Pre, and it still sounds essentially the same. I really don't think the 500K input impedance is that big of a deal.

Incidentally, I also have a Walter Woods M300 amp and the Little Mark II sounds nothing like it. To my ears, they're not even close.

Of course, this is strictly my own opinion based on my own personal preferences. Others' experiences will no doubt be different. :D
 
#10
I agree with Bob that the LMII doesn't really sound anything like old Woods if that is your bag. It is a good sounding slab amp but I think it is a little too bright and deep sounding for an optimal upright sound...it doesn't have that warm midrange push the Focus/old Woods amps do.

The F1 is tighter in the lows and has better mids for upright. It is probably more like the Woods Electrocoustic amps. I have used it for upright and it is fine. I honestly don't have big pickup loading problems with the input on either amp. I am used to using slab amps for upright and some EQ'ing will typically mask the impedance mismatch when the drums start. The EQ on the Markbass amps is pretty good (especially the filters) so I'll bet you can get it to work if you want.

If you're playing all DB, the Focus makes more sense because it is designed from the ground up for that instrument. However, if you are a doubler, you can get an excellent electric bass sound from the F1/LMII and a good upright bass sound...compared to an excellent upright sound and fair electric bass sound from the Focus.

I refuse to use anything that involves something outboard, it's just too much trouble and I never got a bass orgasm from something additional in the signal chain. Right now I am either totally acoustic or running a Revolution Solo II into a GKMB150S (thanks Bob!)...the simpler the better for me.

W
 
#11
The F1 is my go-to amp. It has been for nearly a year. For me, that's a long time. Most gigs are BG. But I use it for DB and first evaluated it that way - and am very satisfied. Seems like what Wilby says in his first 3 paragraphs is spot on. We finally agree (make it +2 with his avatar)!
 
#12
robgrow said:
FWIW I have a Little Mark II (same preamp as the F1 I believe), and I really don't like it for double bass. Although it's a very solid amp with lots of headroom, I just don't like the way it sounds for DB. I have also tried the Little Mark II with a couple of different preamps, including fdeck's excellent HPF-Pre, and it still sounds essentially the same. I really don't think the 500K input impedance is that big of a deal.

Incidentally, I also have a Walter Woods M300 amp and the Little Mark II sounds nothing like it. To my ears, they're not even close.

Of course, this is strictly my own opinion based on my own personal preferences. Others' experiences will no doubt be different. :D
Click to expand...

Per Wilby's comments, the old Walter Woods sound nothing like the newer ones. The comparison I and others make with the F1 and the Walter Woods is in reference to the much tighter, much more SS state and brighter sounding electracoustic series of WW amps, started I believe in the late 90's.
 
#13
Wilbyman said:
I agree with Bob that the LMII doesn't really sound anything like old Woods if that is your bag. It is a good sounding slab amp but I think it is a little too bright and deep sounding for an optimal upright sound...it doesn't have that warm midrange push the Focus/old Woods amps do.
Click to expand...

That's interesting Wilbyman, When I played the Little Mark II at Guitar Center, amongst all the kids running AC/DC licks, I liked the midrange of the Little Mark II with slab.



Wilbyman said:
I
The F1 is tighter in the lows and has better mids for upright. It is probably more like the Woods Electrocoustic amps. I have used it for upright and it is fine. I honestly don't have big pickup loading problems with the input on either amp. I am used to using slab amps for upright and some EQ'ing will typically mask the impedance mismatch when the drums start. The EQ on the Markbass amps is pretty good (especially the filters) so I'll bet you can get it to work if you want.
Click to expand...


This makes perfect sense to me since both the Walter Woods Electroacoustic and the F1 have Digital Power Amplifiers along with Switching Power Supplies. Ken Jung showed me his last November. It sure is a cute little bugger.



Wilbyman said:
If you're playing all DB, the Focus makes more sense because it is designed from the ground up for that instrument. However, if you are a doubler, you can get an excellent electric bass sound from the F1/LMII and a good upright bass sound...compared to an excellent upright sound and fair electric bass sound from the Focus.
Click to expand...



Yep, you just gotta have the Notch, Lo Cut Filters, and the Focus EQ to do the DB thing. It never seems to cut both ways.


Wilbyman said:
I refuse to use anything that involves something outboard, it's just too much trouble and I never got a bass orgasm from something additional in the signal chain. Right now I am either totally acoustic or running a Revolution Solo II into a GKMB150S (thanks Bob!)...the simpler the better for me.W
Click to expand...

Well here is where I respectively disagree. As much as I hate carrying around the little black boxes, with the Woods Electroacoustic at least, they are a necessary evil. The Phase Switch and Lo Cut Filter on FDecks HPF Preamp are an absolute necessity, since Walter took the phase switch of the newer amps. In the final analysis this is where the Acoustic Image guys thought ahead. That said, Walter's amps have an EQ section that correct a myriad of problems. But sometimes you just have to have the HPF to get it straight.

Ric
 
#17
On a more serious note:p, while I can't comment on the input impedance issue and how it might effect some preamps, the 'upgrade' to the F1 is due out in a couple of months. It's called the F500... same power, size and tone (same, amp, etc.), but with a few additions that DB players might like.... the fixed mids of the F1 are now semi-parametric (like the larger SA450 and SD800), and a mute switch has been added. Also, a DI level control and external pre/post DI switch has been added.

Pretty amazing... they fit it all in there by replacing a few of the knobs with concentric units. The F1 will still be in the product line-up at a new reduced price ($799 versus the original $845). I'm not sure what the F500 will sell for... my guess is somewhere in the $899 to $950 range... pure guess there).

I am again totally impressed with this head with the piezo loaded Rob Allen basses , although these basses have a nice preamp buffer sort of thing included so that the output impedance is a better match to the typical 'bass amp' input.
 
#18
KJung said:
.......with a few additions that DB players might like.... the fixed mids of the F1 are now semi-parametric (like the larger SA450 and SD800), and a mute switch has been added. Also, a DI level control and external pre/post DI switch has been added.
Click to expand...

Hey,
I like the midrange setup of these amps! It's similar to the old GK 200 and 400 MB. I'll have to compare the two. That particular EQ setup worked well for DB. If the EQ points are similar it might really work.

KJung said:
I am again totally impressed with this head with the piezo loaded Rob Allen basses , although these basses have a nice preamp buffer sort of thing included so that the output impedance is a better match to the typical 'bass amp' input.
Click to expand...

That's the ticket with pizeos. You have to have a preamp to get the highs to sound right. The problem is that when you raise the input impedance to 1 Meg Ohm it probably changes the sound of the Electric
Bass in a unflattering way while it improves the sound of the Double Bass. I can't prove this it's just a theory.


Ric
 
#19
Ric Vice said:
Well here is where I respectively disagree. As much as I hate carrying around the little black boxes, with the Woods Electroacoustic at least, they are a necessary evil. The Phase Switch and Lo Cut Filter on FDecks HPF Preamp are an absolute necessity, since Walter took the phase switch of the newer amps. In the final analysis this is where the Acoustic Image guys thought ahead. That said, Walter's amps have an EQ section that correct a myriad of problems. But sometimes you just have to have the HPF to get it straight.

Ric
Click to expand...

Ric- I used to be in the phase/impedance attenuation camp but honestly I don't think it's necessary for a good sound. I have had too many experiences lately where I plugged my Underwood into whatever slab amp was sitting on the bandstand and gotten a good sound despite the "bad" impedance and lack of phase switches. I used the HPF-pre and for a day or two never heard any benefit. I just find that the niche gear tends to lose its shine after the downbeat. YMMV. I know mine does from time to time...and maybe I will hear the benefit of a megaohm impedance again.
 
#20
Wilbyman said:
Ric- I used to be in the phase/impedance attenuation camp but honestly I don't think it's necessary for a good sound. I have had too many experiences lately where I plugged my Underwood into whatever slab amp was sitting on the bandstand and gotten a good sound despite the "bad" impedance and lack of phase switches. I used the HPF-pre and for a day or two never heard any benefit. I just find that the niche gear tends to lose its shine after the downbeat. YMMV. I know mine does from time to time...and maybe I will hear the benefit of a megaohm impedance again.
Click to expand...

Well, if it isnt broke don't fix it. Actually, both my Woods amps already have a 1 Meg Ohm input impedance. The things that I use on the HPF are the Phase Switch and Lo Cut. I only use em when I have to though. The Low Cut Filter, after all, wipes out fundamentals from the instrument, but sometimes I just have to use it. Webster University has a hall that's incredibly boomy and all the EQ in the world won't fix the problem. Phase Switches are a different matter. I got used to them on the Woods MI-400-8 and although it's a subtile difference, it's discernibly audible. It can also occasionally fix feedback with the flip of a switch.To me, that's a handy thing to have access to.Since we use totally different pickups Realist vs Upton that changes the playing field from the get go. I couldn't get a decent sound from the Revolution Series 1.

Ric
 

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