Markbass Megathread PART 3

[rok51]

I, too, have had my share of "can you believe it!" moments with the LM II. The bandmates are getting a touch worn out on it-"could you please turn that $#%@ bass down!"
I just can't help myself...really.

Kim

 

[inazone]

Had my LMII for more than a year. 2-4 gigs per week (5 this week). No problems.

Same here. No problems.

 

[JimmyM]

So then, are you saying that it was the gold bow, or the balloon that drove your tone?

Come on, you should know it's the combination of both. I thought you were a bassist!

BTW, I think I know now why these amps work so well, and it goes back to something Jonas Hellborg said in BP a month or two ago. He said that when you go to a studio and plug into a Neve console and all that other high grade audio stuff, it sounds wonderful, but through bass amps it sounds horrible. And he's right. Even tube amps don't get that studio audiophile quality. I gave up on mic'ing my rig a long time ago. You have to build bass amps and cabs like you're building high grade stuff for the studio or a $10,000 stereo, and not just concentrate on the frequencies that matter to bass. And that's why he may be right when it comes to 12" speakers, too. There's no doubt in my mind that the reason my 12" combo moves the amount of air it does is because of the 12". I don't think a single 10" has it in it to sound that full. 12"s respond like 10"s and move almost as much air as a 15" without sounding tubby. And then he said it had to do it at loud levels. I think we're all in agreement here. He did it by getting Warwick to build a signature amp and cabs that cost a fortune. Must be nice to get exactly what you want and get paid for it. I did it by getting a Markbass and two 12"s. He's the better businessman, I guess, but I'm happy.

 

[bass dan]

anyone try a sadowsky pre amp/di if front of a lmII. i have a acoustic image contra head that i run a sadowsky pre in front of into a wizzy m line. i have only heard the lmII once at a guitar center in jacksonville, played my g&l l2000 thru it , was not overwhelmed, but didnt have my cab or the pre amp ive grown accustumed. just wondering if anyone has tried this combo. considering the lmII mainly because my contra is a combo that i usually disconnect the internal downfiring speaker from but have to lug the whole thing around for the head. to my ears the lmII sounded really close to the acoustic image head, although i didnt play them side by side nothing about the lmII stood out above the acoustic image, which is not really a bad thing since i really like the sound of the acoustic image.

 

[TonyP-]

Come on, you should know it's the combination of both. I thought you were a bassist!

BTW, I think I know now why these amps work so well, and it goes back to something Jonas Hellborg said in BP a month or two ago. He said that when you go to a studio and plug into a Neve console and all that other high grade audio stuff, it sounds wonderful, but through bass amps it sounds horrible. And he's right. Even tube amps don't get that studio audiophile quality. I gave up on mic'ing my rig a long time ago. You have to build bass amps and cabs like you're building high grade stuff for the studio or a $10,000 stereo, and not just concentrate on the frequencies that matter to bass. And that's why he may be right when it comes to 12" speakers, too. There's no doubt in my mind that the reason my 12" combo moves the amount of air it does is because of the 12". I don't think a single 10" has it in it to sound that full. 12"s respond like 10"s and move almost as much air as a 15" without sounding tubby. And then he said it had to do it at loud levels. I think we're all in agreement here. He did it by getting Warwick to build a signature amp and cabs that cost a fortune. Must be nice to get exactly what you want and get paid for it. I did it by getting a Markbass and two 12"s. He's the better businessman, I guess, but I'm happy.

Jonas is a unique player and individual on this planet.
Highly under rated as an player and artist IMHO.

He is defiantly breaking the stereo type with using a 15" for the type of music he is treading on. However I still have of reluctance of using a 15" at all in bass rig. To me they almost always sound "limited" so to speak and the long winded point I'm trying to make is that I think his gear is might be "tailored" for him and his approach. I'm curious what the "Jonas" cabs would sound like with a solid state head and not the pre that was designed to work with it. Or for that matter would that 15" sound any good ? Take a look at where His right hand is positioned and where his 'single' pickup is. Its pretty far back and maybe he needs that 15" just to get some of the "umph" into his transient attack.

I'm looking forward to checking it out at NAMM this year.

Then the speculations can stop.

Also looking forward to a new cab myself that is a spin of the 322 (obviously using 1 12 and 2 10s) to use with the MKII (but yet other gear as well).

 

[KJung]

anyone try a sadowsky pre amp/di if front of a lmII. i have a acoustic image contra head that i run a sadowsky pre in front of into a wizzy m line. i have only heard the lmII once at a guitar center in jacksonville, played my g&l l2000 thru it , was not overwhelmed, but didnt have my cab or the pre amp ive grown accustumed. just wondering if anyone has tried this combo. considering the lmII mainly because my contra is a combo that i usually disconnect the internal downfiring speaker from but have to lug the whole thing around for the head. to my ears the lmII sounded really close to the acoustic image head, although i didnt play them side by side nothing about the lmII stood out above the acoustic image, which is not really a bad thing since i really like the sound of the acoustic image.

I have played my Sadowsky (same pre as you are talking about, but on-board) through my LMII many times. Wonderful!!! Actually, the LMII is completely, totally, massively different sounding than the Acoustic Image heads.... much more upper mid and treble response, deeper bass, and a slight warmth and grind. Of course, the AI is a wonderful head, but really more voiced for DB to my ears. If you like a very warm, punchy, mid-mid oriented tone, the AI stuff sounds pretty nice with EB. However, the LMII is really voiced for EB... it makes my J Bass sound like it does in a studio situation with a nice pre going into a board... warm, but very precise, and a much wider frequency range than the Focus/Clarus to my ear.

Of course, if you are not playing through a cabinet(s) that can reproduce the wide spectrum of tone the LMII puts out, I can see where a variety of heads would sound similar. The biggest difference is in the deep bass and the upper mids and treble.

 

[Senor SQUID]

I played my LMII at rehearsal last night through my NV215 oh boy! What smaller cabs go well with this head for smaller gigs?

 

[Njxt2]

He said that when you go to a studio and plug into a Neve console and all that other high grade audio stuff, it sounds wonderful, but through bass amps it sounds horrible. And he's right. Even tube amps don't get that studio audiophile quality. I gave up on mic'ing my rig a long time ago.

Reading that it reminds me of something I wanted to discuss about the LMII.
I'm quite new around here (in fact, been here then off for years but that's another boring story), and it seems that some people don't like the sound of postEQ DI out of the LMII ?
IMHO, it's quite the contrary. In my (small) home studio, I've recorded some bass lines directly from the DI OUT of the LMII to my computer through my Alesis FW interface and the sound blows me away. It is exactly what I was looking for (and that the cab render but not exactly what the head gives).
Usually (before I had the LMII), I used to record with my bass directly plugged in the audio interface and then tweak the sound with lotsa plugins (compression, EQ, amp simulator ...) because mic'ing or direct sound never sounded as I wanted (yeah, perhaps the MIM bass is to blame).
Now it's plain simple and plain good : turn on the LMII, plug, play & record, a little compression if needed and ... done !
Great.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I played my LMII at rehearsal last night through my NV215 oh boy! What smaller cabs go well with this head for smaller gigs?

Anything that can handle the power that you like the sound. How small do you want to go? I've used my coax Bag End S15BX-D, a Flite Sound 2-8, EA VL 110, Nahas 1-12, all with good but varying results. An Aguilar GS112, Epifani PS cab, Bergie 112, several Schroeders, Ampeg Portabass, lots of choices.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Reading that it reminds me of something I wanted to discuss about the LMII.
I'm quite new around here (in fact, been here then off for years but that's another boring story), and it seems that some people don't like the sound of postEQ DI out of the LMII ?
IMHO, it's quite the contrary. In my (small) home studio, I've recorded some bass lines directly from the DI OUT of the LMII to my computer through my Alesis FW interface and the sound blows me away. It is exactly what I was looking for (and that the cab render but not exactly what the head gives).
Usually (before I had the LMII), I used to record with my bass directly plugged in the audio interface and then tweak the sound with lotsa plugins (compression, EQ, amp simulator ...) because mic'ing or direct sound never sounded as I wanted (yeah, perhaps the MIM bass is to blame).
Now it's plain simple and plain good : turn on the LMII, plug, play & record, a little compression if needed and ... done !
Great.

That's my preference too but many people want the opposite.

 

[BurningSkies]

I've always prefered my Post-eq DI rather than pre.

For me, it amounts to less chance for a sound guy to make my bass sound like crap.

 

[KJung]

Reading that it reminds me of something I wanted to discuss about the LMII.
I'm quite new around here (in fact, been here then off for years but that's another boring story), and it seems that some people don't like the sound of postEQ DI out of the LMII ?
IMHO, it's quite the contrary. In my (small) home studio, I've recorded some bass lines directly from the DI OUT of the LMII to my computer through my Alesis FW interface and the sound blows me away. It is exactly what I was looking for (and that the cab render but not exactly what the head gives).
Usually (before I had the LMII), I used to record with my bass directly plugged in the audio interface and then tweak the sound with lotsa plugins (compression, EQ, amp simulator ...) because mic'ing or direct sound never sounded as I wanted (yeah, perhaps the MIM bass is to blame).
Now it's plain simple and plain good : turn on the LMII, plug, play & record, a little compression if needed and ... done !
Great.

For recording, you would obviously want a post EQ out. However, for live performance, in most cases you would not want to send an EQ'd signal that is set to optimize your stage rig tone to the much differently voiced front of house system. You would also not want any changes in stage volume made from the amp to impact the front of house.

That's one of the complaints about the LMII and F1. For those that play live and record, it's nice to have the simple, external pre/post EQ switch for the DI like most amps have. It is easy to change the pre/post EQ on the LMII, but it's more of a permanent setting... i.e., post for those that primarily use the LMII to record, and pre for those who primarily use the DI for live performance.

Even if you run your amp relatively flat, most sound persons would rather have a clean, totally independent feed from any possible stage adjustments from the amp.

 

[Njxt2]

However, for live performance, in most cases you would not want to send an EQ'd signal that is set to optimize your stage rig tone to the much differently voiced front of house system.

Mmmh you're right, that totally makes sense.
I don't play live that often (less than 20 gigs ... and I'm 35 ...), and I must have been lucky since I always played mic'ed on the PA or only with my rig.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Most sound people I've dealt with don't seem to care (actually no one has mentioned it yet and no complaints so far), as long as you send a good, consistent signal. Then again I send a fairly neutral signal through fairly neutral cabs that don't require tweaks that would screw up the signal going foh.

 

[KJung]

Most sound people I've dealt with don't seem to care (actually no one has mentioned it yet and no complaints so far), as long as you send a good, consistent signal. Then again I send a fairly neutral signal through fairly neutral cabs that don't require tweaks that would screw up the signal going foh.

+1 It also depends on the level of front house support. I rarely have front of house support. However, when I do, it's usually pretty top notch and huge (large corporate events, etc.). Most of those companies really don't want to deal with an amp DI at all. I've had good luck in those situations using my Radial JDI. Most pro front of house guys have no problem with me using my own DI (since even top notch companies can provide some really bad DI's for bass), and most appreciate and are familiar with units like the Countryman and JDI, etc.

 

[Vic]

For recording, you would obviously want a post EQ out. However, for live performance, in most cases you would not want to send an EQ'd signal that is set to optimize your stage rig tone to the much differently voiced front of house system. You would also not want any changes in stage volume made from the amp to impact the front of house.

BIG +1!!

IMHO, if you're worried your production folks might screw up your bass tone if you feed them a dry signal, you have bigger fish to fry, and also IMHO/IME, feeding folks like that a wet signal only makes it worse. YMMV of course.

 

[smakbass]

I was at rehearsal last night we had a drummer there who has a bassist twin brother, he kept touching the top of my amp amazed at how cool it stays for how much sound it pumps out..

he kept saying....My brother has GOT to get one of these.

(his bro has the Mesa walkabout)

 

[JimmyM]

So as I was ordering my 12" extension cab, I spent a little more time with a couple amps I didn't get to try yet...the SA800 and the Jeff Berlin combo. The 800 is just the LM II with higher wattage and a couple extra features. They sounded identical plugged in to a 2-10" cab. The Berlin sounds like the world's greatest B-15. I don't like 15"s and the only 15" rig I have ever liked in my life is the B-15 until I heard this one. It's too tubby sounding for me to want to buy, but it's certainly tops in its field if you like 15"s.

But now I'm convinced that I did the right thing by buying a 12" combo and getting an extension cab. The 2-10" sounded awesome, but the 12" combo had more beef without getting floppy like a 15". I think Markbass should do more with 12"s. I'm convinced now that the only reason 10"s became the standard is because of the SVT, and that 12"s should have been the standard. I'm also convinced that the Mini CMD would have never worked nearly as well with a 10".

 

[chadds]

Jonas is a unique player and individual on this planet.
Highly under rated as an player and artist IMHO.

He is defiantly breaking the stereo type with using a 15" for the type of music he is treading on. However I still have of reluctance of using a 15" at all in bass rig. To me they almost always sound "limited" so to speak and the long winded point I'm trying to make is that I think his gear is might be "tailored" for him and his approach. I'm curious what the "Jonas" cabs would sound like with a solid state head and not the pre that was designed to work with it. Or for that matter would that 15" sound any good ? Take a look at where His right hand is positioned and where his 'single' pickup is. Its pretty far back and maybe he needs that 15" just to get some of the "umph" into his transient attack.

I'm looking forward to checking it out at NAMM this year.

Then the speculations can stop.

Also looking forward to a new cab myself that is a spin of the 322 (obviously using 1 12 and 2 10s) to use with the MKII (but yet other gear as well).

Excellent observations about his technique and tone. It's not always my cup of tea on some earlier recordings. Just here to say the 15" in the Berg IP153 or it's extension EX115 is unlike any 15 I've heard. I started playing bass when were the pro choice. These babes are fast clear and in fact kind of defy knowing what they are if you couldn't see them. The biamping helps but these 15s are amazing.

 

[JimmyM]

For recording, you would obviously want a post EQ out. However, for live performance, in most cases you would not want to send an EQ'd signal that is set to optimize your stage rig tone to the much differently voiced front of house system. You would also not want any changes in stage volume made from the amp to impact the front of house.

That's one of the complaints about the LMII and F1. For those that play live and record, it's nice to have the simple, external pre/post EQ switch for the DI like most amps have. It is easy to change the pre/post EQ on the LMII, but it's more of a permanent setting... i.e., post for those that primarily use the LMII to record, and pre for those who primarily use the DI for live performance.

Even if you run your amp relatively flat, most sound persons would rather have a clean, totally independent feed from any possible stage adjustments from the amp.

Screw 'em. I know what I want my basses to sound like out front, too. And I don't want the soundman to have ultimate control over that. I mean, obviously he's always going to have ultimate control, but if I think my amp sound needs a little VLE, I want the house to get the VLE, too. I've been using an EBS Microbass II so I can double on upright and match their volumes, and it's got a killer DI, but I'm going to take a DI from the amp now. Not sure if it's the greatest DI in the world, but it gets the sound of that amp into the PA and it's very quiet, and that's all I need.