Markbass Megathread PART 3

[JimmyM]

Well get your scrawny butt out of this thread

Sorry, just kidding! You have to play the gear that moves you to be your best. And those Alembic preamps are indeed pretty awesome. I'd be real interested to hear what you thought of the hybrid amps they're putting out. They really aren't much heavier than the LM II and just a little bigger. Does your local GC have them yet? Mine just has the LM II, the F1 and the SD800 or whatever that 500w SS amp is called.

 

[vlad335]

Well get your scrawny butt out of this thread

Sorry, just kidding! You have to play the gear that moves you to be your best. And those Alembic preamps are indeed pretty awesome. I'd be real interested to hear what you thought of the hybrid amps they're putting out. They really aren't much heavier than the LM II and just a little bigger. Does your local GC have them yet? Mine just has the LM II, the F1 and the SD800 or whatever that 500w SS amp is called.

They just have the LMII and another bigger head but I don't know what it was. I saw the price of $1100+ and looked no further.

I did consider plugging into my Alembic then into the Markbass head but was afraid of blowing something up. ( My specialty) Now that I think about it probably would have been awesome.

Oh well...

 

[KJung]

* Wishing I would have never posted a pic with my cat on my amp.*

Hey Baxter's one cool dude though. He likes to sit on my amps when I play for some reason. ( Vibrations) I have a little Behringer combo I use for practice and he even lays on it and goes to sleep while I play. Weird.

Since this is a Markbass thread I have to say I returned my LMII tonight. Just wasn't for me. I really really wanted it to work out as the weight to power ratio of this little head is amazing. Clean, clear, loud and punchy. I even bought a laptop bag for it but the fact remains that it is a solid state amp. My F-1X with a JJ Tesla tube was calling me back.

The Alembic has no where near the clarity or articulation but it has that certain something.

Dammit! Condemned to lugging this boat anchor of a head around some more.

This makes total sense. The LMII is an amazing SS head, and for those of us who like it clean and tight, it's one of the best things out there. However, if you like an SVT, or the classic old Bassman tone circuit emulated in the F-1, then you are not going to be very happy going pure SS.

One thing you might try if you want to downsize is the Mesa hybrids... very tubey sounding, loud, and with very nice EQ versus the Alembic F-1. The Walkabout is really something! Also, the Markbass R500 is designed for those who like some tube warmth and a little break-up in their sound. Pretty nice.

The $1,100 model you saw was the SD800... a truly stunning amp... 800 watts RMS into 4 ohms and about the same weight as the LMII! However, you would have REALLY disliked that one. It's a class D amp, making it super clean and crisp and modern. For my tone goals, I totally dig it.

Keep your eye out for the R500 when they start to show up and give one a try if you feel like it.

 

[bassmeins]

The $1,100 model you saw was the SD800... a truly stunning amp... 800 watts RMS into 4 ohms and about the same weight as the LMII! However, you would have REALLY disliked that one. It's a class D amp, making it super clean and crisp and modern. For my tone goals, I totally dig it.

@KJung

How much louder is the SD800 versus the F1 in the real gigging world? Is it significant?

thank you

 

[KJung]

@KJung

How much louder is the SD800 versus the F1 in the real gigging world? Is it significant?

thank you

That's kind of a trick question The SD800 gets WAY louder than the F1/LMII/SA450. There is also the ability for a much wider, deeper, bigger low end at higher volume.

However, into my large, 4ohm, efficient large cab, I've never had the LMII or F1 run out of headroom on any gig I've done with them.

So, while the SD800 does get massively louder in an absolute sense, especially in the deep bass, in the real gigging world for most of us, it would be somewhat overkill. Also, that extra bass extension results in more 'low end presence' than the punch and growl of the F1 or LMII. However, with the semi-parametric mids, you can slightly boost the low mids and cut the upper mids of the SD800 and get pretty close to a 'super loud F1' IME.

Unless you play REALLY loud, I would recommend the F1 if you like it super clean and crisp, or the LMII if you like it a little warmer.

IMO and IME.

 

[tombowlus]

That's kind of a trick question The SD800 gets WAY louder than the F1/LMII/SA450.

I have to somewhat disagree with this, at least in my application. I am predominantly a fingerstyle player, and I play over the neck pickup, but I still like a lot of articulation. But it's really 'full articulation' that I am after (if that makes sense). So, my limiting factor on how much clean headroom I have is often the point where the lows to low mids no longer stay tight and forceful. Often, long before any 'clipping' or 'distortion' kicks in, I can hear the lows starting to either loosen up or run out of steam. Well, based upon my personal usage, with a variety of basses, through a variety of cabs, I find the LMII to put out just as much usable volume (with no slacking in the lows) as the SD800.

Obviously, this is one of those IME/IMHO things, and YMMV, but I did want to provide a counterpoint to Ken's repeated comments about how much louder the SD800 is relative to the LMII. IME, the LMII is much closer, if not every bit as loud.

Tom.

 

[KJung]

I have to somewhat disagree with this, at least in my application. I am predominantly a fingerstyle player, and I play over the neck pickup, but I still like a lot of articulation. But it's really 'full articulation' that I am after (if that makes sense). So, my limiting factor on how much clean headroom I have is often the point where the lows to low mids no longer stay tight and forceful. Often, long before any 'clipping' or 'distortion' kicks in, I can hear the lows starting to either loosen up or run out of steam. Well, based upon my personal usage, with a variety of basses, through a variety of cabs, I find the LMII to put out just as much usable volume (with no slacking in the lows) as the SD800.

Obviously, this is one of those IME/IMHO things, and YMMV, but I did want to provide a counterpoint to Ken's repeated comments about how much louder the SD800 is relative to the LMII. IME, the LMII is much closer, if not every bit as loud.

Tom.

We REALLY hear this differently. Don't quite get it, since I find the SD800 exponentially louder than both the F1 and LMII.. stunningly, exponentially, massively louder. This seems to be the consensus among most who either own or tried these heads in an A/B situation. However, I too prefer the TONE of the LMII.

Who knows

 

[tombowlus]

We REALLY hear this differently. Don't quite get it, since I find the SD800 exponentially louder than both the F1 and LMII.. stunningly, exponentially, massively louder. This seems to be the consensus among most who either own or tried these heads in an A/B situation. However, I too prefer the TONE of the LMII.

Who knows

Hey, it surprises me, too, but I just wanted to call it like I see (hear) it.

 

[KJung]

Hey, it surprises me, too, but I just wanted to call it like I see (hear) it.

+1.. that's what these threads and site are all about The more data points the better.

 

[bassmeins]

@KJung and @tombowlus

äähh, thank you for your answers, that was exactly what I needed ...


you've got me that zen-vibe

 

[KJung]

@KJung and @tombowlus

äähh, thank you for your answers, that was exactly what I needed ...


you've got me that zen-vibe

There are quite a few posts from TBers who are using the SD800 and have tried or owned the LMII (not many F1's out there yet). You might want to do a search to get more data points.

The SD800 does sound quite a bit different than the F1, independent of the additional wattage... more open, deeper low end, and more upper mid voicing than lower mid. Most have a strong preference for one versus the other (similar to the F1 versus LMII preference).

I also find the SD800 a little more picky as to which cabinets it works with, probably due to the wider voicing. It sounds fabulous with my 410UL (II), but is too low end extended and upper mid clanky with my 410UL (I) and my Bergantino cabs. This might be the difference that Tom and I are hearing, since the cab choice seems to interact a little bit more with the SD800 than the tighter, more mid voicing of the F1 and the LMII. I found a similar situation with both my iAmps and the Walter Woods, where those amps could sound GREAT with certain cabs and basses, and thin and lifeless with others. By comparison, the F1, and especially the LMII seems to just work with darn near everything.

Edit: Put a different way, I would have very little hesitation recommending the LMII to virtually any player with a 4ohm cab or cab combination that likes a SS type tone. I would be 'reasonably' comfortable recommending the F1 to those same players, with the caveat that it's quite crisp and clean... toward the clean SS tone end of the SS tone spectrum. For the SD800, I'm very comfortable saying it's loud as heck with huge low end, but would highly recommend a trial with the cab you will be using. The good news with the GC return policy is that there is very little risk in trying one out at home for a week to make sure.

 

[Kosko]

Hey guys, don't mean to derail anything here but I think I'm on the very edge of going MarkBass. Leaning towards the LMII, its the cheapest solution and maybe the most flexible... I've already got a bunch of cabinets around, peavy15, bassman210, ampeg610. But then the combo MB 212P is probably loud enough for all my gigs.

I brought my bass into GC, (which actually got a nice response )

At it covered the spectrum of the sixer well. Dialed in a bunch of different tones. Had a friend play it while I walked further away and honestly the tone did seem to blossom.

Also want to mention the F1 is amazing. That thing is so small. And so expensive

So there it is, the convienence of the 15 combo versus the flexibility of the LMII and a little less $$$$. I realize I can add another cabinet to the combo too, but anyways.

Another thing I may use it for is as a preamp. Running of the DI of the LMII I could even bring that sucker into work somedays, run it to my pc's audio in ( until upgraded) and suddently track takes on a 15 minute break. At least thats an idea... but the f1 is so small... but the combos so easy... but its all crazy $$$$... but the LMII is reasonable... but, but, but

This stuff is all really cool though Awesome tool.


EDIT: wow, 5 smiles and a pic in one post. i think thats a record for me. I must be tired.

 

[Vic]

...the SD800 ... extra bass extension results in more 'low end presence' than the punch and growl of the F1 or LMII. However, with the semi-parametric mids, you can slightly boost the low mids and cut the upper mids of the SD800 and get pretty close to a 'super loud F1' IME....

Wow, it seems as if you're lumping the F1 with LMII tonally here, where I would have expected you to lump it with the SD800. I never would have expected this. Did I misunderstand?

 

[KJung]

Wow, it seems as if you're lumping the F1 with LMII tonally here, where I would have expected you to lump it with the SD800. I never would have expected this. Did I misunderstand?

They all three sound quite different. While the tonality of the F1 is closer to the SD800 than the LMII, the massive, huge headroom and deep bass response sets the SD800 apart from the smaller heads in the line. IMO and IME. At lower volumes, the F1 and SD800 are quite similar (although there is still a deep bass extension in the SD800 that I don't hear in the F1). At higher volumes, the SD800 pulls away from both the F1 and LMII in the open, deep low end that seems to never run out of headroom. There is absolutely no compression at all in the SD800, even at crushing volumes. I hear both the F1 and LMII 'tighten up' a bit as they start to run out of headroom.. that classic 'low end compression' that most of these lower wattage heads exhibit when really cranked.

Per Tom's comment, a deep, huge wide low end does not necessarily translate into punch. It's more of an iAmp800 low end to my ear... huge, wide, deep... the below 50hz thing. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the tone you are looking for, and the voicing of the cab. Interestingly, some of the biggest raves for the SD800 have come from rockers using it with the big Markbass sealed multi10 cab. This would make sense, since the massive power of the SD800 would push that big box, but the voicing of the cab would keep that somewhat wide low end tight as a drum!

IMO and IME!

Edit: The deeper bass extension of the SD800 versus the F1, even when volume matched has been hypothesized to be due to MB setting the low end 'limiter' at a lower cutoff frequency than the F1 or LMII, since the additional wattage would be capable of driving that deeper low end without clipping. I have no idea if this is the case, but that's what it sounds like to me.

 

[Vic]

They all three sound quite different. While the tonality of the F1 is closer to the SD800 than the LMII, the massive, huge headroom and deep bass response sets the SD800 apart from the smaller heads in the line.

Gotcha. Based on the rest of what you said, I also continue to feel the SD800 may never be for me. Maybe if they come out with an SA800 tho.

 

[KJung]

Gotcha. Based on the rest of what you said, I also continue to feel the SD800 may never be for me. Maybe if they come out with an SA800 tho.

+100. Back when I bought my LMII, I was so excited about the sound that I thought, man, they have an 800 watt version... that's what I'm talking about. When it arrived, it was quite shocking as to how different it sounded.

I dig it though, and with some upper mids cut and the right cab pairing, it does sound pretty much like a big honkin' F1 with deeper bass response.

An SA800 would be amazing!!!!

 

[Kosko]

I just called GC and here's the pricepoint rundown:

LMII 599
F1 850
112 combo 850
Berlin 1099
210 combo 999

For the price and functionality, the 112 combo seems to be my perfect soluion. I also learned you can turn the speaker off entirely and run it as just the LMII head, which is pretty fun.

 

[Halftooth]

Hey, it surprises me, too, but I just wanted to call it like I see (hear) it.

I did the same A/B comparison with a Schroeder 1210L, and while I thought the SD800 might have been a little louder, they seemed to have very similar ouputs with the Schroeder.

The SD800 may have the same thing going on that the iAmp800 has with the extended low frequencies taking away from the perceived volume.

It could have a lot to do with the cabs too...with the right cab, maybe the SD800 sounds much louder.

 

[r379]

I may wind up being a Markbass guy myself (at least partially) before all is said and done with. I was at a local GC Sat. night and tried the rear-ported 104HR and really liked it. I took my rack case and both the F-1X and SVP Pro preamps and both sounded good through the cabinet. Played a passive 4 string Jazz.

I compared the 104HR with an Epifani 310UL (series 2, I think) and liked it but for different reasons than the 104HR. I may have a hard time deciding between the two cabinets, as odd as that may seem. I really liked the F-1X through through the 310.

Also briefly tried the MB R500 head and liked it but didn't really play with it much. I did like what I heard.

 

[KJung]

I did the same A/B comparison with a Schroeder 1210L, and while I thought the SD800 might have been a little louder, they seemed to have very similar ouputs with the Schroeder.

The SD800 may have the same thing going on that the iAmp800 has with the extended low frequencies taking away from the perceived volume.

It could have a lot to do with the cabs too...with the right cab, maybe the SD800 sounds much louder.

+1... I've been pounding on the F1 versus SD800 with my 4ohm 410UL (II) for the last hour just to make sure I'm not crazy, and also with a single DB112.

I agree that with the smaller cab, I don't notice much difference, although I can feel the DB112 straining a bit more with the open B string with the SD800. Being a former owner of a 1210, that cab doesn't really reproduce the deepest frequencies where the primary difference seems to be between the SD800 and the smaller heads.

With the 410UL, it's a different story. First, it's amazing how much sound the F1 puts out. What a great little head! However, you REALLY hear the difference between these two heads on the lower notes of the E string and the B string... night and day, with the F1 sounding good, loud, but somewhat compressed when pushed (I mean really pushed, which I would rarely do on even relatively loud gigs), with a lack of open dynamic response in the lowest notes (like any 500 watt Amp I've played). The SD800 gives you the feeling of a huge, fundamental type note presence down low, and it never breaks a sweat.

On the gig, this is even more magnified, since those lowest notes don't really bloom in a small room or basement.

To be honest, it's a little much down low (per your iAmp comment), and I've never really felt I've run out of headroom with either the F1 or LMII, and actually like the tighter, somewhat compressed low end, which tends to sit in a mix very nicely. The SD800 is an 'ash tray rumbler' down there though.. holy moly. It kept up every bit with the Glock Heart Rock that it replaced.

So, I guess that's my impression of the 'exponentially louder' thing... maybe not in huge absolute volume up and down the neck, but a combination of significantly louder in an absolute sense, and totally 'unstrained' down low, resulting in a much louder, fuller, deeper, more open E and B string.

All these MB heads are just smoking IMO