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Markbass Megathread PART 3

#442
Halftooth said:
The SD800 may have the same thing going on that the iAmp800 has with the extended low frequencies taking away from the perceived volume.
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...which is one of the reasons I sold my iAmp800. It seemed to be wasting a lot of energy amplifying frequencies that were of little to no practical use... at least for me. Too much ultra-high, and too much low lows. Yeah, I know it's got an eq on it, but seems like whenever I tried to eq it differently, it just didn't sound as good as other amps that didn't have that same base personality, so off it went. Pretty in the basement, useless waste of power at a gig. This is the same reason why I'm not even that interested to seriously consider the SD800, noting I already have the LMII which at least gets me most of the way there power-wise for my sound.

One qualification: I have not yet really spent much time with the SD800... just going on what I'm reading here and what little time I have spent on one.
 
#443
Vic said:
...which is one of the reasons I sold my iAmp800. It seemed to be wasting a lot of energy amplifying frequencies that were of little to no practical use... at least for me. Too much ultra-high, and too much low lows. Yeah, I know it's got an eq on it, but seems like whenever I tried to eq it differently, it just didn't sound as good as other amps that didn't have that same base personality, so off it went. Pretty in the basement, useless waste of power at a gig. This is the same reason why I'm not even that interested to seriously consider the SD800, noting I already have the LMII which at least gets me most of the way there power-wise for my sound.

One qualification: I have not yet really spent much time with the SD800... just going on what I'm reading here and what little time I have spent on one.
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It doesn't have nearly the issue of the iAmp800 that you describe, and which I totally agree with. I think in my initial review, I called the SD800 the amp 'I had hoped the iAmp would be'... wide, clean, transparent, deep, sizzly.. BUT, still punchy as heck and much louder to my ear. I think it does deliver on that, but I agree the huge difference that I experience between the SD800 and F1/LMII is at the low end of the frequency spectrum... the deep fundamental sort of thing.

I know we are kind of pounding this into the ground, but hopefully it's helpful for those trying to decide if the SD800 is worth double the price of the LMII, and 25% more than the F1. I would say... depends on the tone your are looking for, and how much deep low end you like in your tone.
 
#444
KJung said:
I know we are kind of pounding this into the ground, but hopefully it's helpful for those trying to decide if the SD800 is worth double the price of the LMII, and 25% more than the F1. I would say... depends on the tone your are looking for, and how much deep low end you like in your tone.
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+1

TB readers, remember to put the "TB over analysis filter" on before you make a decision... remember, we tend to hash stuff to death here, which might put more emphasis on it than is due. :D
 
#447
+1 for the cats.

Ken, thanks for the explanation PM about the SD800. Just to give a little different perspective about it over the LM II for those of you with a headache, I honestly couldn't tell a difference between the two at low to medium volumes.
 
#448
JimmyM said:
+1 for the cats.

Ken, thanks for the explanation PM about the SD800. Just to give a little different perspective about it over the LM II for those of you with a headache, I honestly couldn't tell a difference between the two at low to medium volumes.
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No problem... all this class D, class A/B stuff can make your head spin.

Are you sure it was the SD800 you were checking out, and not the SA450. They both look literally identical. The SA450 is literally identical to the LMII, with a few more bells and whistles in a bigger box.

The SD800 sounds quite different to me, but again, a lot depends on the subtlety of the cab, the voicing of the bass (i.e., new roundwounds versus old flats), etc., etc.

To me, the SD800, the F1 and the LMII (those are the three that I own) all sound great, but different enough at least with my basses and cabs that most who have A/B'd them with me at one of our many Detroit GTG's had a significant preference.

My buddy Steve (Burk) put it best when he and Mike (Mikebass) were over a few weeks back checking the LMII out agains the SD800... Steve said my J Bass sounded like a beautiful J Bass through the LMII, and sounded like a beautiful J Bass through a hi fi rig with the SD800. That kind of nails it to me... both great.. just depends what you want. The F1 is pretty close to the SD800.

Fun discussion, and wonderful stuff!!!!
 
#452
KJung said:
They all three sound quite different. While the tonality of the F1 is closer to the SD800 than the LMII, the massive, huge headroom and deep bass response sets the SD800 apart from the smaller heads in the line. IMO and IME. At lower volumes, the F1 and SD800 are quite similar (although there is still a deep bass extension in the SD800 that I don't hear in the F1). At higher volumes, the SD800 pulls away from both the F1 and LMII in the open, deep low end that seems to never run out of headroom. There is absolutely no compression at all in the SD800, even at crushing volumes. I hear both the F1 and LMII 'tighten up' a bit as they start to run out of headroom.. that classic 'low end compression' that most of these lower wattage heads exhibit when really cranked.

Per Tom's comment, a deep, huge wide low end does not necessarily translate into punch. It's more of an iAmp800 low end to my ear... huge, wide, deep... the below 50hz thing. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the tone you are looking for, and the voicing of the cab. Interestingly, some of the biggest raves for the SD800 have come from rockers using it with the big Markbass sealed multi10 cab. This would make sense, since the massive power of the SD800 would push that big box, but the voicing of the cab would keep that somewhat wide low end tight as a drum!

IMO and IME!

Edit: The deeper bass extension of the SD800 versus the F1, even when volume matched has been hypothesized to be due to MB setting the low end 'limiter' at a lower cutoff frequency than the F1 or LMII, since the additional wattage would be capable of driving that deeper low end without clipping. I have no idea if this is the case, but that's what it sounds like to me.
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Just to clarify, I am hearing a stronger, equally deep low end out of the LMII, relative to the SD800, and at least IME, the LMII holds up better in the low end than does the SD800, such that at the end of the day, the 'usable volume' from the two is the same. That said, this 'usable volume limit' that I am talking about is well into the 'stupid loud' category with either head.

I am not trying to knock the SD800, but rather state that at least for my purposes, the LMII does equally well in the volume department.
 
#453
tombowlus said:
Just to clarify, I am hearing a stronger, equally deep low end out of the LMII, relative to the SD800, and at least IME, the LMII holds up better in the low end than does the SD800, such that at the end of the day, the 'usable volume' from the two is the same. That said, this 'usable volume limit' that I am talking about is well into the 'stupid loud' category with either head.

I am not trying to knock the SD800, but rather state that at least for my purposes, the LMII does equally well in the volume department.
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Interesting. Again, very different from my experience, but what the heck!
 
#454
KJung said:
+1... I've been pounding on the F1 versus SD800 with my 4ohm 410UL (II) for the last hour just to make sure I'm not crazy:D, and also with a single DB112.

I agree that with the smaller cab, I don't notice much difference, although I can feel the DB112 straining a bit more with the open B string with the SD800. Being a former owner of a 1210, that cab doesn't really reproduce the deepest frequencies where the primary difference seems to be between the SD800 and the smaller heads.

With the 410UL, it's a different story. First, it's amazing how much sound the F1 puts out. What a great little head! However, you REALLY hear the difference between these two heads on the lower notes of the E string and the B string... night and day, with the F1 sounding good, loud, but somewhat compressed when pushed (I mean really pushed, which I would rarely do on even relatively loud gigs), with a lack of open dynamic response in the lowest notes (like any 500 watt Amp I've played). The SD800 gives you the feeling of a huge, fundamental type note presence down low, and it never breaks a sweat.

On the gig, this is even more magnified, since those lowest notes don't really bloom in a small room or basement.

To be honest, it's a little much down low (per your iAmp comment), and I've never really felt I've run out of headroom with either the F1 or LMII, and actually like the tighter, somewhat compressed low end, which tends to sit in a mix very nicely. The SD800 is an 'ash tray rumbler' down there though.. holy moly. It kept up every bit with the Glock Heart Rock that it replaced.

So, I guess that's my impression of the 'exponentially louder' thing... maybe not in huge absolute volume up and down the neck, but a combination of significantly louder in an absolute sense, and totally 'unstrained' down low, resulting in a much louder, fuller, deeper, more open E and B string.

All these MB heads are just smoking IMO:bassist:
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I'll have to test this later, but I can see where at lower volumes, the SD800 might have more 'apparent headroom' in the lower notes, but at gig volumes, I prefer the performance of the LMII.
 
#455
tombowlus said:
I'll have to test this later, but I can see where at lower volumes, the SD800 might have more 'apparent headroom' in the lower notes, but at gig volumes, I prefer the performance of the LMII.
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It's funny, we both prefer the LMII for different reasons... you for the 'better low end' and me for the 'smaller, more compressed, tighter' low end, which is better for me also.

Maybe we are saying the same thing with different words!
 
#456
I guess I should have been more specific about the 104HR. I had been trying to get more mids/punch out of my F-1X than I could get out of my current pair of GS112s and the 104HR delivers that.

The Epifani 310UL, by comparison, was smoother, cleaner and more even overall.

As I posted earlier, I liked both cabinets but am leaning more towards the 104HR.
 
#459
tombowlus said:
I'll have to test this later, but I can see where at lower volumes, the SD800 might have more 'apparent headroom' in the lower notes, but at gig volumes, I prefer the performance of the LMII.
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In my brief basement A/B test of the SD800 and LMII, I heard something similar. Ken and I didn't push either head hard at all, and at these lower volumes, the SD800 seemed to have TONS more headroom than the LMII. Don't ask me how I could hear this at low volumes, becuase it doesn't really make sense to me, but even quiet notes from the SD800 have that hefty, full sound. Based on this, I just assumed that the SD800 was way louder than the LMII, but I don't know how this would translate on stage.

Ken, you mentioned that the SD800 seems way louder than the LMII, but you've never run out of headroom on a gig with the LMII. (neither have I!) Maybe there isn't that much of an actual difference in headroom...in other words maybe the LMII can play loud gigs almost as well as the SD800, but what you are hearing is that "perceived headroom difference" that you and I heard in the basement at low volumes, except it is magnified when on a loud gig.
 
#460
vision said:
In my brief basement A/B test of the SD800 and LMII, I heard something similar. Ken and I didn't push either head hard at all, and at these lower volumes, the SD800 seemed to have TONS more headroom than the LMII. Don't ask me how I could hear this at low volumes, becuase it doesn't really make sense to me, but even quiet notes from the SD800 have that hefty, full sound. Based on this, I just assumed that the SD800 was way louder than the LMII, but I don't know how this would translate on stage.

Ken, you mentioned that the SD800 seems way louder than the LMII, but you've never run out of headroom on a gig with the LMII. (neither have I!) Maybe there isn't that much of an actual difference in headroom...in other words maybe the LMII can play loud gigs almost as well as the SD800, but what you are hearing is that "perceived headroom difference" that you and I heard in the basement at low volumes, except it is magnified when on a loud gig.
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At this point, who knows. I hear the differences actually become much more apparant in a large room at high volumes. It's not that I ever drove the LMII or F1 to clip at all, but I could tell I was pushing them a bit on occasion... that little bit of tightness in the deep bass. I never came close to that in the same rooms with the SD800, and the nature of the low end seems to extend at least 5-10 hz below both the F1 and the LMII when you really start wumping it, at least when you are using a large cab that can reproduce the wump at volume.

That being said, I again would pick the LMII over the SD800 on pure tone (and for the price.. forget about it:bassist:), and as we are all saying, it puts out plenty of wump for the vast majority.

I do remember that hang. We were playing the LMII and loving it, and then went to the SD800 and it was like 'whoa':D If you dig up that GTG thread we had at Steve's house, most had the same impression, even though many didn't like the more clinical nature of the tone of the SD800 versus the LMII.
 

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