Markbass Schematics

[guy n. cognito]

From all that I have read here, I am disappointed in MarkBass' lack of response. I know that Peter Murray (an excellent bassist) is just an employee, but I also feel let down that he has not participated in any meaningful way in this thread. I love the sound of my LMII. It has been dead-on reliable. As someone else had mentioned, I am one that likes to have options on repairing anything that I own. Yes, my daily driver has over 365,000 miles with the original powertrain and no needed repairs...(yes, I'm the mechanic)...but if I get stuck on repair...I have backups...either the factory (they have been surprisingly helpful on things) or outside sources that have access to the factory procedures and data. Every other amplifier that I own-or have owned-has had very good...if not excellent...support-on request from the manufacturer. I absolutely do not buy into the 'reverse engineering' argument...no schematic is needed for that...company 'b''s engineers dissect company 'm''s products and begin to manufacture their 'own' similar designs. Are MarkBass amps designed to be disposable? Not from my glimpses inside, they are not. Everything that I have looked at under the hood looked to be first rate, all the way. Well-engineered. Well manufactured. Poorly supported. Either MarkBass is ignorant of the need for good customer support...or they are arrogant. The net result is the same for me. Unless this issue is addressed properly...the next piece of gear on the block will be my LMII...and I will never buy another one of their products and will strongly advise any in our community to avoid their products.

with profound regret,

kim

Markbass HAS made it clear that they do not provide schematics to anyone but their authorized service reps. Why should they join in this thread and continue to take a lashing from a verbal minority that thinks it's their pejorative to receive them at whim.

Personally, I think it's a good concept. 99% of their customers don't want schematics. Of the 1% that does, I'll bet that 75% of those don't have any business working on complicated electronics. Many electronic companies have the same policy.

If you intend to purchase broken gear in order to fix it yourself, it would be wise to make sure the schematics are available BEFORE you spend your money. All this could have been avoided with a little common sense.

 

[B-string]

Yeah why would they step in and talk to a bunch of bass players anyway The amp was already bought once, out of warranty, give us more money or move on.

BTW this thread served a very real purpose, as an independant repair tech I now know better than to take one in. Just tell the owner to send it to an auth. service center or trash it and get a new one. That will be my response.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Yeah why would they step in and talk to a bunch of bass players anyway The amp was already bought once, out of warranty, give us more money or move on.

BTW this thread served a very real purpose, as an independant repair tech I now know better than to take one in. Just tell the owner to send it to an auth. service center or trash it and get a new one. That will be my response.

A gross over-generalization for effect. Cute.

They did communicate with the OP. He was told it was not available. Are they obliged to explain it again and again to those here who can't seem to comprehend that fact?

 

[iriegnome]

This was my whole point a bunch of posts ago. I could stand on a soap box and bash MB. I chose to buy my amp thinking that MB was in line with most of the real bass amp manufacturers who deal with customers for non warranty issues daily.
All I wanted was a schematic to fix my amp. After all of this ferver about MB, GC and their out of warranty service, I will NEVER be a customer ever again simply for the fact they do not support customers out of warranty.
Please know that at some point all of us will have a amp out of warranty and we will run into similar problems. I do not bow to corporate america and I do not cave to big business bullys.

 

[guy n. cognito]

This was my whole point a bunch of posts ago. I could stand on a soap box and bash MB. I chose to buy my amp thinking that MB was in line with most of the real bass amp manufacturers who deal with customers for non warranty issues daily.
All I wanted was a schematic to fix my amp. After all of this ferver about MB, GC and their out of warranty service, I will NEVER be a customer ever again simply for the fact they do not support customers out of warranty.
Please know that at some point all of us will have a amp out of warranty and we will run into similar problems. I do not bow to corporate america and I do not cave to big business bullys.

They did deal with your non-warranty issue......they told you where you could take it to get if fixed. You just don't like the answer.

Cave to big business bullies? Let's not get dramatic. I'd be shocked if MB employees more than 100 people. Hardly big business in my book.

If my out-of-warranty amp ever breaks, I'll take it to an authorized repair shop to get it fixed. All I'll expect from the manufacturer is to 1)have an authorized repair shop and 2)tell me how to contact them.

 

[B-string]

A gross over-generalization for effect. Cute.

They did communicate with the OP. He was told it was not available. Are they obliged to explain it again and again to those here who can't seem to comprehend that fact?

Thank you, and I am responding to you directly hence the quote. My point still stands BTW. I know what to tell a customer with a broken out of warranty MarkBass amp due to this thread. I hope several other independant repair techs also know what to tell their customers as well.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Thank you, and I am responding to you directly hence the quote. My point still stands BTW. I know what to tell a customer with a broken out of warranty MarkBass amp due to this thread. I hope several other independant repair techs also know what to tell their customers now as well.

Yep, run off your own business to prove a point. That'll show 'em!!!

 

[B-string]

Yep, run off your own business to prove a point. That'll show 'em!!!

I don't understand, show whom? I don't need or want to waste valuable time researching a circuit so it can then be properly and completely repaired. Three amps or more can be repaired in that time. Accepting that amp would be running off business. Is there something there you don't understand?

 

[mrkreuzschlitz]

Its funny that a simple schematic would've avoided all of this fuss. I seem to remember seeing some sort of amp with the schematic printed on the amp case itself, I can't recall which one though. Withholding a schematic isn't going to stop an amp company, aka Behringer, from copying their design. If Markbass really doesn't want their design being copied, then they shouldn't sell it. Chances are, if you have a good design, others will copy it. The one thing MB can have over Behringer is customer service but this thread has showed me that MB simply does not have good post warranty customer support and service. As a bassist that buys 90% of his gear used, this is seriously steering me away from EVER getting a Markbass head or amp. More than that, when they do send a schematic, it's almost useless (that's what I drew from an earlier post). Its disheartening to see a company being this stubborn about a simple request, it's not like he's asking for the secret formula to Coca-cola.

 

[iriegnome]

They did deal with your non-warranty issue......they told you where you could take it to get if fixed. You just don't like the answer.

Cave to big business bullies? Let's not get dramatic. I'd be shocked if MB employees more than 100 people. Hardly big business in my book.

If my out-of-warranty amp ever breaks, I'll take it to an authorized repair shop to get it fixed. All I'll expect from the manufacturer is to 1)have an authorized repair shop and 2)tell me how to contact them.

No reason to get nasty. Until now, this thread has been a great discussion of people with differing mindsets and coming from different points of view. If you are incapable of following along with passive discussion you should probably not join in. Disagreement is welcome. All opinions, to me are very welcome, but please be civil. If you are a person who can afford to take something to GC to be repaired and have the time and another amp to use in the mean time, then more power to you. Me on the other hand do things myself. I trust family, not GC. Plus a 60 mile drive to drop off my amp is an extreme inconvenience to ME. I don't care if you want the manufacturer to tell you what to do, I neiter want or expect them to tell me what to do. I guess I come from a different generation than you. I fix my own house. I take pride in my equipment and I know the people who work on my gear. I don't just send stuff in to someone I don't know and yes you are correct, I did not like or agree with their answer. As a consumer in AMERICA, I have my own choice and I do not have to accept what one company tells me.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Nothing nasty in my response. Again, you just don't like the answer.

You are, of course, welcome to fix the amp yourself. MB, however, is under mo obligation to give you the schematic. I'm sure they are hesitant to provide them to a " Jack of all trades" that may or may not have a clue what they are doing.

On to your "pride" comment. Like you, I take pride in my possessions. I also know my limitations. While I'm more than capable of making minor plumbing and electrical repairs or doing carpentry work, I'm over my head when it comes to consumer electronics. Sure, I could spend hours researching and educating myself, but my time is valuable and limited. Instead, I choose to utilize qualified technicians. I can feel confident that the work will be done right by someone that isn't learning his trade on my gear. Does this mean I don't take pride in my gear? Of course not.

No reason to get nasty. Until now, this thread has been a great discussion of people with differing mindsets and coming from different points of view. If you are incapable of following along with passive discussion you should probably not join in. Disagreement is welcome. All opinions, to me are very welcome, but please be civil. If you are a person who can afford to take something to GC to be repaired and have the time and another amp to use in the mean time, then more power to you. Me on the other hand do things myself. I trust family, not GC. Plus a 60 mile drive to drop off my amp is an extreme inconvenience to ME. I don't care if you want the manufacturer to tell you what to do, I neiter want or expect them to tell me what to do. I guess I come from a different generation than you. I fix my own house. I take pride in my equipment and I know the people who work on my gear. I don't just send stuff in to someone I don't know and yes you are correct, I did not like or agree with their answer. As a consumer in AMERICA, I have my own choice and I do not have to accept what one company tells me.

 

[B-string]

Yep, run off your own business to prove a point. That'll show 'em!!!

Yes your right, I didn't like or even appreciate this answer. I found it argumentative, uneducated and childish. There seems to be a pattern, maybe its just the others here?

 

[aborgman]

You are, of course, welcome to fix the amp yourself. MB, however, is under mo obligation to give you the schematic.

...and he is under no obligation to not complain about them on the internet when they don't.

They're well within their rights to choose not to provide schematics. He's well within his right to decry their customer service far and wide for not providing schematics.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Yes your right, I didn't like or even appreciate this answer. I found it argumentative, uneducated and childish. There seems to be a pattern, maybe its just the others here?

Maybe you just struggle with sarcasm?????

Argumentative?? Possible. Uneducated and childish?? Nah, I'm pretty sure I hit that nail square on the head.......

 

[B-string]

Maybe you just struggle with sarcasm?????

Argumentative?? Possible. Uneducated and childish?? Nah, I'm pretty sure I hit that nail square on the head.......

Might I suggest a new hammer?

Just to make the point, I now live in a town with Ampegs, G-K and Hartkie. Only one player has a MarkBass as a backup. The nearest town through the desert that might have a MarkBass player is 65 miles away. So it would be to my advantage how? I would not recommend my California customers to make the 700 mile round trip, I feel this is the proper service to them if they own a MarkBass. If I still lived in a large music area and was 20 years younger I might consider it a challenge? Swing with the other arm next time.

 

[BassmanPaul]

You know, across the years I've discovered that it's not very constructive to attack folk who disagree with you. By all means argue your point but when you get personal you have failed in your argument.

Many times I have bought faulty equipment to repair. It's somewhat of a hobby of mine. Some I have been able to procure the schematic, others I've had to fall back on my years of practical experience. The newer amps with Class D or with SMPS I have zero experience. I believe most older techs in the world are somewhat similar. We did not get SMPS in skool but there again the younger guys didn't get toobs.

As I see it, MB has set up a system that works for 99.9% of their customers. The other 0.1% fall through the cracks. Many manufacturers follow the same principle. Replace a defective card with another, known to be good, and call it a day. The customer saves the cost of tech labour costs in component level fault finding but pays more for "parts". This also saves the manufacturer the costs, eventually borne by the customer, of setting up parts inventories all around the world. In the field of electronics most faults usually come down to a handful of components costing a total of a few dollars while labour costs are in the tens or hundreds. There are pros and cons to any system and none of them will suit everyone.

Paul

 

[rok51]

As I see it, MB has set up a system that works for 99.9% of their customers. The other 0.1% fall through the cracks. Many manufacturers follow the same principle. Replace a defective card with another, known to be good, and call it a day. The customer saves the cost of tech labour costs in component level fault finding but pays more for "parts". This also saves the manufacturer the costs, eventually borne by the customer, of setting up parts inventories all around the world. In the field of electronics most faults usually come down to a handful of components costing a total of a few dollars while labour costs are in the tens or hundreds. There are pros and cons to any system and none of them will suit everyone.

Paul

Okay...I have to say that I agree with you. I was annoyed with their policy based solely on principle, as it relates to my way of thinking . The way that my LMII is put together, I don't expect it to fail. I love the tone, size, price point...
...I just got a burr under my saddle over their policy...of course they have the right to limit schematics...as guy n cognito noted...many electronic companies do so. I have just been extremely lucky, I'd have to say, in getting even huge companies to help me out if I asked respectfully. I'm throwing in the towel on this one...
Peter, if you are out there and I, in any way, offended you...I am most sorry.

Kim

 

[greenboy]

A lot of more sophisticated gear is only practical because it follows a model based on what has transpired in the computer hardware market. Things have long since gone past "kit computers" except for hobbyists who are not interested in small-form computing power.

Nobody who uses computers as day-to-day tools expects to delve beyond a surface modularity to augment or repair such a computer, and the manufactuers and OEMs for the mainstream are not going to waste their time catering to either hobbyists or hardware hackers.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Might I suggest a new hammer?

Just to make the point, I now live in a town with Ampegs, G-K and Hartkie. Only one player has a MarkBass as a backup. The nearest town through the desert that might have a MarkBass player is 65 miles away. So it would be to my advantage how? I would not recommend my California customers to make the 700 mile round trip, I feel this is the proper service to them if they own a MarkBass. If I still lived in a large music area and was 20 years younger I might consider it a challenge? Swing with the other arm next time.

This makes so much sense I can't even respond.........


So, what you are saying is that you don't have any MB clients, or one, at most??? So your post above seems pretty irrelevant and made exclusively for additional thread drama. Check.

Here's my point, that you may have missed above.....techs get paid by the hour. If it takes you longer to work on a MB head than the average head, then you get paid for that time. It isn't wasted time, because you are paid for your time. So long as your client agrees to pay the additional time, you've lost nothing. So to make a stand and refuse to work on MB gear, simply because they won't give you a schematic is taking money out of your pocket.

 

[iriegnome]

Ok. Here is how it stands. I want a schematic. Guy, you can keep your attitude and keep your thread drama. Everyone else was ok with agreeing and disagreeing without antagonism. Really. You are welcome to your opinion, but keep the crap. I will NEVER buy another piece of MB equipment. Deal with it. It is my opinion. I do not want you to agree or disagree. If you have my schematic, please speak up. If not, please be nice or do not post.