Markbass Schematics

[byacey]

The problem for some buyers is that Walter has used many proprietary parts that are specific to his amps, that you just can't get anymore. Before he moved from the Palm Springs area, I'd go hang with him every so often. (I truly miss his wife) Anyway.... I had one of his more powerful amps. I brought it over with me just to make sure it was all good. He told me to sell it, even though it was in perfect shape because one of the main parts he would need to repair it wasn't being made anywhere anymore. Sort of like my Markbass F500 amp. A few years back mine broke. I was told I got the last repair part for it in America, maybe in the world. Really good head, but that part just isn't made anymore because they were only made for that one amplifier.

That is a different circumstance than a manufacturer not providing info or parts, because they don't want their older products being repaired.

 

[agedhorse]

That is a different circumstance than a manufacturer not providing info or parts, because they don't want their older products being repaired.

There are two sides to this story, let me provide the other side...

Using MarkBass as an example, they developed some technology that's pretty fundamental to their brand. Developing such technology can be VERY expensive when it's not copied from a competitor. Each MarkBass model is an evolution of this legacy technology, often combined with the introduction of new technology.

There are competitors out there who will simply copy the technology inside existing products rather than doing their own R&D, and providing schematics makes this task MUCH easier. As somebody who has had this happen to them, especially when the company is located in a region with low manufacturing costs and has a low R&D cost structure because of this "copy successful existing products" business model, it does directly take money that I earned off the table through reduced sales or because the product had to be discontinued due to becoming non-competitive.

That said, we do continue to provide service and support for these products.

 

[byacey]

There are two sides to this story, let me provide the other side...

Using MarkBass as an example, they developed some technology that's pretty fundamental to their brand. Developing such technology can be VERY expensive when it's not copied from a competitor. Each MarkBass model is an evolution of this legacy technology, often combined with the introduction of new technology.

There are competitors out there who will simply copy the technology inside existing products rather than doing their own R&D, and providing schematics makes this task MUCH easier. As somebody who has had this happen to them, especially when the company is located in a region with low manufacturing costs and has a low R&D cost structure because of this "copy successful existing products" business model, it does directly take money that I earned off the table through reduced sales or because the product had to be discontinued due to becoming non-competitive.

That said, we do continue to provide service and support for these products.

I can understand wanting to protect intellectual property and design, but unless the replacement modules are available and reasonably priced, the end user is being held ransom, or shut out completely with no support whatsoever.
Last fall a friend of mine gave me an electric snow thrower that was dead. He said this was the second one, as the first was replaced under warranty, and the current one ran for about 20 minutes out of the box, and failed. He was so fed up, he wasn't interested in any further support, as the cost of shipping made it no longer worthwhile to pursue. Upon examination, the 3 phase motor driver module was found to be the problem.

I called the manufacturer, explained the situation, and they informed me that there isn't any service info or parts available. I asked how their warranty depots service these things without any parts, and they told me they don't repair them, only exchange under warranty.

I then asked "Why should I ever consider purchasing any of your products when you don't have any after warranty customer support?" He declined to offer any answer.

Edit: I since put my 46 year old Toro snowblower back in service. Cleaned out the fuel tank and carb, and it runs like new. Sometimes newer isn't always better.

 

[B String]

There are two sides to this story, let me provide the other side...

Using MarkBass as an example, they developed some technology that's pretty fundamental to their brand. Developing such technology can be VERY expensive when it's not copied from a competitor. Each MarkBass model is an evolution of this legacy technology, often combined with the introduction of new technology.

There are competitors out there who will simply copy the technology inside existing products rather than doing their own R&D, and providing schematics makes this task MUCH easier. As somebody who has had this happen to them, especially when the company is located in a region with low manufacturing costs and has a low R&D cost structure because of this "copy successful existing products" business model, it does directly take money that I earned off the table through reduced sales or because the product had to be discontinued due to becoming non-competitive.

That said, we do continue to provide service and support for these products.

Markbass only made the F500 amp for a few, maybe three years. (I think) It's smaller than any other head they've made. Marco told me the power supply was different than any of their other amps, making it too expensive to make. The power board was specially made for them, so they could only support the repairs while they still had the parts. So.... I was told by the repairman in the Los Angeles area that I got the last part that he knew of in the country. It happens

 

[agedhorse]

Sometimes pushing the envelope, especially with transitional technology, can sometimes result in unexpected results and challenging support. In some cases, the technology is licensed and therefore can't be shared, in some cases the manufacturer purchases the design turn key under a non-serviceable (replace only) agreement, and sometimes parts get discontinued. It happens to all manufacturers that have been in business for an extended period of time.

It happened to me, I designed a power amp around an exclusive National Semiconductor high voltage audio driver, it was a pretty common part used by others too. Technology changed, their technology changed and they discontinued the IC in favor of a better and more integrated solution.

There was little warning and very limited inventory for lifetime buy, it just essentially disappeared. I had enough parts to be able to service amps for about 20 years, I may have a couple left but I haven't seen one of these amps in for service in over 5 years.

I did sell some of these parts to other manufacturers so that they could continue servicing their products, but when these parts left the marketplace, there weren't any more options. There were some counterfeits are remarks, but they weren't functional parts.