Markbass ? Why the dislike ?

[TrevorR]

In my opinion there's a lot wrong with Markbass. All the great players that endorse Markbass make it look like bass heaven, but they're all in it for the money. I.e. Richard Bona never hears his Markbass on stage: he only hears a DI mix through his in-ears. He doesn't care what it sounds like as long as he's payed by Markbass.
By the way: I don't blame him for that or all the other endorsers, a musician has to make a living and this is part of it.
The problem with Markbass is: they sound terrible. I've tried all the combos and they all have the same problem: ugly hard mid frequencies en very aggressive high frequencies.
I own a Fodera bass and I played it on many Markbass amps and combos, but I don't hear my bass. All the qualities and rich sounds of the instrument drown in the Markbass noise. What I hear is not my bass but I hear Markbass amp and speaker. The sound that it produces has nothing to do with the sound of my bass.
I tested it with a trained musician if he could hear if I played my Fodera over a Markbass combo or if I played a cheap $200 bass I picked up in the store. He couldn't tell the difference.
When I switched to an Eden combo standing next to the Markbass he could tell the difference immediately without any hesitation.
In other words: if you buy Markbass you hear Markbass (lots of ugly mids an highs) but the sound has nothing to do with what you put into it. Why they have not been exposed yet for what they are is probably because most people play cheap bass guitars and are impressed with the noise these combos produce and of course all the well payed endorsers keep them afloat.
So Markbass makes highly overrated equipment and is a hype, more than a quality product.

Also NOT MY EXPERIENCE with my two Wals, my Aria SB or my Jazz. I’m wondering if you had whacked up the VLA & VPF without knowing what they do, which would be a pretty overwhelming amount of additional EQ. Running my MB flat with no VPF and minimal VLE sounds transparent yet punchy and sings the sound of MY basses!

 

[kasbrey]

In my opinion there's a lot wrong with Markbass. All the great players that endorse Markbass make it look like bass heaven, but they're all in it for the money. I.e. Richard Bona never hears his Markbass on stage: he only hears a DI mix through his in-ears. He doesn't care what it sounds like as long as he's payed by Markbass.
By the way: I don't blame him for that or all the other endorsers, a musician has to make a living and this is part of it.
The problem with Markbass is: they sound terrible. I've tried all the combos and they all have the same problem: ugly hard mid frequencies en very aggressive high frequencies.
I own a Fodera bass and I played it on many Markbass amps and combos, but I don't hear my bass. All the qualities and rich sounds of the instrument drown in the Markbass noise. What I hear is not my bass but I hear Markbass amp and speaker. The sound that it produces has nothing to do with the sound of my bass.
I tested it with a trained musician if he could hear if I played my Fodera over a Markbass combo or if I played a cheap $200 bass I picked up in the store. He couldn't tell the difference.
When I switched to an Eden combo standing next to the Markbass he could tell the difference immediately without any hesitation.
In other words: if you buy Markbass you hear Markbass (lots of ugly mids an highs) but the sound has nothing to do with what you put into it. Why they have not been exposed yet for what they are is probably because most people play cheap bass guitars and are impressed with the noise these combos produce and of course all the well payed endorsers keep them afloat.
So Markbass makes highly overrated equipment and is a hype, more than a quality product.

You must feel very strongly about this to join up specifically to give your opinion. However I don't think so many great players are getting enough financial incentive to put up with a P.O.S. backline. I sold my Eden to get Markbass gear and I've owned a few of their heads and cabs. My main gear isn't Markbass now but I still rate it highly. If you couldn't get a transparent enough tone my guess would be user error/unfamiliarity.

 

[TrevorG]

Also NOT MY EXPERIENCE with my two Wals, my Aria SB or my Jazz. I’m wondering if you had whacked up the VLA & VPF without knowing what they do, which would be a pretty overwhelming amount of additional EQ. Running my MB flat with no VPF and minimal VLE sounds transparent yet punchy and sings the sound of MY basses!

I agree with TrevorR. Got a Spector, an Overwater, a Washburn acoustic fretless and a load of others running through mine and, unless I wind the VPF to max - they all sounds as they should. None of the endorsees seem to sound the same either and if they are only in it for the money I'm surprised some of the other, bigger companies haven't outbid Markbass by now.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

Garbage in garbage out . To be clear I love my Markbass rig. Berlin Combo/NY151 extension cab. Sounds good with all my “cheap basses.” (No Foderas)

 

[Deleted member 165050]

In my opinion there's a lot wrong with Markbass. All the great players that endorse Markbass make it look like bass heaven, but they're all in it for the money. I.e. Richard Bona never hears his Markbass on stage: he only hears a DI mix through his in-ears. He doesn't care what it sounds like as long as he's payed by Markbass.
By the way: I don't blame him for that or all the other endorsers, a musician has to make a living and this is part of it.
The problem with Markbass is: they sound terrible. I've tried all the combos and they all have the same problem: ugly hard mid frequencies en very aggressive high frequencies.
I own a Fodera bass and I played it on many Markbass amps and combos, but I don't hear my bass. All the qualities and rich sounds of the instrument drown in the Markbass noise. What I hear is not my bass but I hear Markbass amp and speaker. The sound that it produces has nothing to do with the sound of my bass.
I tested it with a trained musician if he could hear if I played my Fodera over a Markbass combo or if I played a cheap $200 bass I picked up in the store. He couldn't tell the difference.
When I switched to an Eden combo standing next to the Markbass he could tell the difference immediately without any hesitation.
In other words: if you buy Markbass you hear Markbass (lots of ugly mids an highs) but the sound has nothing to do with what you put into it. Why they have not been exposed yet for what they are is probably because most people play cheap bass guitars and are impressed with the noise these combos produce and of course all the well payed endorsers keep them afloat.
So Markbass makes highly overrated equipment and is a hype, more than a quality product.

So what’s the real issue, did they turn you down for an endorsement deal?

 

[Novarocker]

I don't think they sound bad, I just don't care for the baked in tone of their cabinets that I've tried...that and the price point IMO.

 

[Texican]

I bought a front ported markbass 210 IN ITALY back around 2006. I had never heard of Markbass, and I thought they were quite ugly... but the salesman asked me to try it and I was thoroughly impressed! I thought it was a “no name” brand but I went ahead and bought it. Even with the exchange rate, I still paid considerably less then they go for now in the US. I wish I would’ve kept it but I flip gear like crazy.

 

[Adam Wright]

Used my friends Markbass 210 combo + Markbass 15” cab on a gig the other week. Ran direct from his DI set to Post and got to hear it through my in-ears. Turned the VPF/VLE knobs all the way off. Sounded great. Was thoroughly impressed.

 

[Ritsaard]

Let's be clear on this: I tried out a MarkBass rig at Guitar Center a few years back, using an active bass (I think it was a Schecter) with EMGs, and didn't care for it at all. I ain't no MB fanboy. But there are other ways of explaining your experimental results than "MB is crap". It could simply be that the Eden had the pre-amp gain set up so as to emphasize the input level difference between the cheap $200 bass and your beloved Fodera, while the Markbass was set up to normalize things more. That changes things, both in the signal behavior and in psychoacoustics. The human ear+brain tend to hear small differences in level as differences in quality.

In both situation comparing the two amps I had all the EQ completely flat, no VLE en VPF on the MB, no parametric or enhance or the like on the Eden and the gain set to the same level. The difference was shocking.
Shonks mentioned earlier the UK knobheads, that is: always finding MB's in the shops with the VLE en VPF turned completely up. My theory is that users tend to do this because these knobs get rid of exactly those ugly mids and highs in the sound of the MB's that I dislike. But the end result still has nothing to do with the characteristics of my bas. It's still only MB what I hear and no Fodera what so ever.
When I rehearse I play over a full-range system with a SansAmp preamp. My Fodera RB sounds full, deep, rich in tone from bottom to top, in the high registers I can make it sound like an acoustic classical guitar, in the low registers it's the Richard Bona sound. I find nothing of that back playing over MB amps and combo's.

 

[Ritsaard]

Let's be clear on this: I tried out a MarkBass rig at Guitar Center a few years back, using an active bass (I think it was a Schecter) with EMGs, and didn't care for it at all. I ain't no MB fanboy. But there are other ways of explaining your experimental results than "MB is crap". It could simply be that the Eden had the pre-amp gain set up so as to emphasize the input level difference between the cheap $200 bass and your beloved Fodera, while the Markbass was set up to normalize things more. That changes things, both in the signal behavior and in psychoacoustics. The human ear+brain tend to hear small differences in level as differences in quality.

In both situation comparing the two amps I head all the EQ flat, VLE en VPF on the Markbass, no parametric or enhance or the like on the Eden and the gain set so two the same level.

 

[kasbrey]

Sounds pretty good to me.



Those upper registers don't sound much like a $200 bass to my ears

 

[Ritsaard]

Sounds pretty good to me.



Those upper registers don't sound much like a $200 bass to my ears

I've seen this awesome video several times. What this man does is incomprehensible. BUT.
Do you know how this is recorded?
1. I see no microphone in front of the rig he's playing, so what you hear is the DI output and not the power amp and speakers of the MB.
2. If he would turn up the rig sitting in front it he wouldn't be able to sing, so the amp is on a vey low volume.

What puzzles me is that no one ever asks the question how it is possible that all these phenomenal bass players flock around one brand while their are so many others great amp builders, most them better than Markbass in my view.
That's not because of the quality but because of the endorsement budget they have and other companies don't have
It also puzzles me why no one ever asks the question how it is possible that a very mediocre producer of bass amps practically monopolizes the market.
That's because Markbass is foremost a brilliant marketing strategy driven by the income and capital of the company and the endorsers, not by the quality of their products.

 

[TrevorR]

In both situation comparing the two amps I had all the EQ completely flat, no VLE en VPF on the MB, no parametric or enhance or the like on the Eden and the gain set to the same level. The difference was shocking.
Shonks mentioned earlier the UK knobheads, that is: always finding MB's in the shops with the VLE en VPF turned completely up. My theory is that users tend to do this because these knobs get rid of exactly those ugly mids and highs in the sound of the MB's that I dislike. But the end result still has nothing to do with the characteristics of my bas. It's still only MB what I hear and no Fodera what so ever.
When I rehearse I play over a full-range system with a SansAmp preamp. My Fodera RB sounds full, deep, rich in tone from bottom to top, in the high registers I can make it sound like an acoustic classical guitar, in the low registers it's the Richard Bona sound. I find nothing of that back playing over MB amps and combo's.

Read this and thought “...but he DOES love the baked in Sansamp tone...” LOL! Cf ad nauseam threads on that topic.

It all comes down to YMMV and clearly YMMV a long way from many other bass players. Which is fine. Personally I find my MB rig to be punchy but relatively transparent for a compact gigging rig. I love it, you’d probably hate it. Which is also fine. My Wals love it and I’ve had loads of complements on the sound from bassists and engineers (EQ flat, no VPF, tiniest amount of VLE).

Horses for courses is a much more likely answer than some sort of filthy lucre conspiracy theory...

 

[Ekulati]

YEMV (your ears may vary). Significantly.

As noted in my tongue in cheek thread on HPFs, I am screwed for my gig tonight, because my band's sound is just going to be ruined by all my harsh mids and aggressive highs. Which BTW, they've never complained about before.

Maybe I have time to run to GC and trade in my MB for one of their new store brand crappy Acoustic rigs.

 

[kasbrey]

I've seen this awesome video several times. What this man does is incomprehensible. BUT.
Do you know how this is recorded?
1. I see no microphone in front of the rig he's playing, so what you hear is the DI output and not the power amp and speakers of the MB.
2. If he would turn up the rig sitting in front it he wouldn't be able to sing, so the amp is on a vey low volume.

What puzzles me is that no one ever asks the question how it is possible that all these phenomenal bass players flock around one brand while their are so many others great amp builders, most them better than Markbass in my view.
That's not because of the quality but because of the endorsement budget they have and other companies don't have
It also puzzles me why no one ever asks the question how it is possible that a very mediocre producer of bass amps practically monopolizes the market.
That's because Markbass is foremost a brilliant marketing strategy driven by the income and capital of the company and the endorsers, not by the quality of their products.

I think that he probably had an Eden rig just out of shot. Also his Fodera that they made for him is of a higher quality than the run of the mill dross they sell to the public
Conspiracy theories aside, unless he's playing with nothing coming through the speakers and he's singing into a room mic you'd be getting bleed from the rig anyway. There's a lot of great players in on the scam if what you say is correct.
Personally I think that it comes across that you don't think Markbass is high end enough for a "Fodera player"

 

[kasbrey]

Also

 

[Deleted member 165050]

This guy is just a brand-hating troll, and probably tone deaf as well since he had to enlist a "trained musician" to tell him what he could or couldn't hear.

Hey I just remembered, *I* am a "trained musician"... I have classical grades in cello, violin, clarinet, and music theory. Not to forget formal studies in Acoustics and Noise Control. And yet I can't hear this overwhelming baked-in tone, maybe I should complain to my teachers

Anyway as we all know, don't feed the troll...

 

[buldog5151bass]

I think most players want their basses to blend in/fit the background. Black and silver (classic Fender) always works. Matkbass is:

1. Expensive.
2. Has unusual and bright colors
3. Not a known name to the general public.

So for many buyers, who listen at least some with their eyes, it has built in negatives.

 

[TrevorG]

This guy is just a brand-hating troll, and probably tone deaf as well since he had to enlist a "trained musician" to tell him what he could or couldn't hear.

Hey I just remembered, *I* am a "trained musician"... I have classical grades in cello, violin, clarinet, and music theory. Not to forget formal studies in Acoustics and Noise Control. And yet I can't hear this overwhelming baked-in tone, maybe I should complain to my teachers

Anyway as we all know, don't feed the troll...

Agreed. And you've just reminded me I have a degree in music, three grade eights in piano, trombone and voice and have played everywhere from the Royal National Theatre to the Albert Hall. And buldog5151bass is right. Markbass are too expensive to make them an easy choice. There is also too much choice out there for the average bass player to feel obliged to buy Markbass. There's also too much education in the West for our MB hater to be freeing us from our ignorance over bass amps. I don't see Markbass advertising like Red Bull(though their livery would look good on an F1 race car). Everybody gets passionate about their gear. I'm never going to persuade a GK user to use MB because they're just as right about their rig was I am. Despite the post's title, generally people extol the virtues of their equipment. It's part of the value they put into their music making and you can't help loving someone for their passion. If we knew a little about what our MB hater LIKES about his own process it would be easier to see where he's coming from and show the generosity that is common on this site. Sadly I don't think he has our flexibility.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

I think most players want their basses to blend in/fit the background. Black and silver (classic Fender) always works. Matkbass is:

1. Expensive.
2. Has unusual and bright colors
3. Not a known name to the general public.

So for many buyers, who listen at least some with their eyes, it has built in negatives.

Got to admit, when I bought my 102P I was hoping there was a version with plain black speakers...