Market input for D.I. outputs

[Sushi Box FX]

So the main reason I've been hesitant to do a fixed-output on the XLR is that the pedal in question has a gain knob that allows the preamp to reach the point of breakup. Since this is a tube preamp, the gain knob affects the overall level of the output signal, so I would have to fix the XLR output at a point where it's loud enough when the gain is turned down but not too loud when the gain is turned up.

I don't know if there's any single perfect answer, besides maybe add separate external knobs for each? That only gets complicated due to trying to keep the size of the pedal small, but anyway I'll take a look at extra room for another knob or switch, see what my options are on the hardware side.

I appreciate all the input so far, I don't expect to make a decision immediately, but this is already giving me a lot to think about. My target demographic is gigging, and I am not a gigging bassist, so I appreciate all the insight. Keep it coming!

 

[macmanlou]

maybe add separate external knobs for each?

If there's room for that, I think it would be the best solution.

 

[XLunacy]

How about this : a 3 way switch to choose between

• Level controlled by 1/4" level knob (= option 1)
  
• Fixed (microphone) level (= option 2)
• Level boost controlled by internal trimpot (= option 3)

Switching between 2 and 3 works just as a pad switch.
Everyone happy now?

 

[pfschim]

FWIW, I'm very happy with the fixed output XLR and adjustable 1/4" on my Noble. It's a good format from my perspective.

 

[bassbrad]

 

[Kubicki Fan]

 

[Sushi Box FX]

How about this : a 3 way switch to choose between

• Level controlled by 1/4" level knob (= option 1)
  
• Fixed (microphone) level (= option 2)
• Level boost controlled by internal trimpot (= option 3)

Switching between 2 and 3 works just as a pad switch.
Everyone happy now?

Unfortunately a 3-way switch that could actually be connected that way would be too big to fit into the pedal.

FWIW, I'm very happy with the fixed output XLR and adjustable 1/4" on my Noble. It's a good format from my perspective.

And that works well on the Noble because Noble is fixed-gain and doesn't overdrive. It's really the adjustable gain part that makes it messy, because if I fix the output level of the XLR, it's only fixed as long as I don't move the gain knob.

I'm playing with a layout that could give me enough space for an extra knob so I could have a separate volume for XLR and 1/4" mounted on the outside of the pedal, but I'll have to build one to make sure it doesn't look super ugly. Aesthetics are still important.

 

[pfschim]

Unfortunately a 3-way switch that could actually be connected that way would be too big to fit into the pedal.


And that works well on the Noble because Noble is fixed-gain and doesn't overdrive. It's really the adjustable gain part that makes it messy, because if I fix the output level of the XLR, it's only fixed as long as I don't move the gain knob.

I'm playing with a layout that could give me enough space for an extra knob so I could have a separate volume for XLR and 1/4" mounted on the outside of the pedal, but I'll have to build one to make sure it doesn't look super ugly. Aesthetics are still important.

I'll certainly agree with you about the Noble not doing OD (unless the input is pushed in a ridiculous way).
Good luck with the redesign efforts, I only ever heard great things about your stuff

 

[JimmyM]

Whatever you do, someone will complain . Go with your gut.

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

Add a pad switch as on the SansAmp RPM XLR out which toggles between MIC/LINE level, but otherwise fixed XLR out (mindful of the house sound engineers)

Utilize a 3-way toggle on the 1/4" out similar to the Mids toggle on the JHS Clover, but here: MUTE/FIXED LVL/SWEEP.

Trim pots can get fiddly and their setting forgotten, so if you use one, expose and recess it like on the JHS Pulp 'n Peel.

All IMHO. Best of luck in this effort.

 

[Sushi Box FX]

Whatever you do, someone will complain . Go with your gut.

I should do this more often, I'm not very good at it I know the final decision lies with me and I'm the only one that will have to answer for it at the end of the day. But that being said I still do like knowing what bassists think, it doesn't cost me anything to ask and get some opinions (aside from my time, but to be honest I'm already on this forum 24/7 anyway).

I can't afford to pay a market research firm to tell me what consumers are thinking, so this is my market research

 

[retslock]

The internal trimpot for XLR and an independent 1/4" out is a great idea. That way if you're rolling tubes you can adjust that level to maintain unity. Plus you can bump up your feed to the amp without making FOH mad.

My SansAmp and my Amp head both have XLR outs. I can send to the PA from the SansAmp and adjust my amp however I like without affecting the signal to the PA.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

I also prefer the fixed level XLR w/pad option.

I think it could be problematic to A) open it up to adjust (in the case of internal trim), and B) get it back to nominal. I'd rather have 2 options and just flip a switch as needed when it comes to the DI.

 

[One Two]

Unfortunately a 3-way switch that could actually be connected that way would be too big to fit into the pedal.


And that works well on the Noble because Noble is fixed-gain and doesn't overdrive. It's really the adjustable gain part that makes it messy, because if I fix the output level of the XLR, it's only fixed as long as I don't move the gain knob.

I'm playing with a layout that could give me enough space for an extra knob so I could have a separate volume for XLR and 1/4" mounted on the outside of the pedal, but I'll have to build one to make sure it doesn't look super ugly. Aesthetics are still important.

That's a good point. If I was only using Finally to produce my breakup tone for certain songs/gigs, the gain and master levels would be at very different settings vs. clean tone. I'd definitely vote two separate volumes if that was an option.

 

[Derek Williams]

I would vote for an internal trim for the DI, but I would that to be after the main level control. I would use the DI trimpot to set the DI level relative to the main level. I would want to be able to use the main level control to balance with the gain control for both 1/4" and DI.

 

[Mighty Thumb]

I'm playing with a layout that could give me enough space for an extra knob so I could have a separate volume for XLR and 1/4" mounted on the outside of the pedal, but I'll have to build one to make sure it doesn't look super ugly. Aesthetics are still important.

 

[IanStephenson]

Just to throw in another opinion...

keep the external knob as it is, and add TWO internal trim pots?

I'm trying to think through the scenarios, but I think I want to set the external knob to mid way, and adjust the XLR feed to be a sensible level, and the 1/4" to send a sensible level to my own gear. I should be able to set and forget this - for my own feed it's definitely a one off, as its the same gear every gig. The DI feed should rarely (if ever) need adjusting, as it only needs to be "sensible", and the sound guy can adjust.

The external knob is for on the fly fixes, so if the gain has been bumped up, I might want to bring both back down again. I can't see a scenario where I'd want mess with them separately when they're set, so "leave this as it is". I think you got this right already.

 

[dax21]

Suprised by so many people in favor of trimpots, good luck explaining to the sound guy why he has to wait while you fidget with disassembling your DI pedal in front of him. Chances are you will promptly get a house DI instead and told to fix your stuff at home.

Level knob that affects both XLR and 1/4" with a pad switch for XLR is the common solution for a good reason.

 

[logdrum]

#3

 

[NKBassman]

Most Definitely NOT internal trimmer for the 1/4” out.

Ideal for me would be a separate XLR level volume knob on the exterior of the pedal but I assume that’s not an option.

What has the feedback been, generally, on the XLR level being tied to the 1/4" volume?

• If the XLR level is generally too hot, then either Leave As Is but add a simple pad switch if there's room, or fixed level at typical microphone/passive DI output level.
• If the XLR level is generally not hot enough, then go fixed level.

Internal trimmers would SUCK to have to adjust on a gig. what about a little tiny mini pot, basically an internal trimmer but with an extension that comes up through the casing, like the new Aguilar DB925 mini preamp pedal.