Market input for D.I. outputs

[herndonbassist]

So the main reason I've been hesitant to do a fixed-output on the XLR is that the pedal in question has a gain knob that allows the preamp to reach the point of breakup. Since this is a tube preamp, the gain knob affects the overall level of the output signal, so I would have to fix the XLR output at a point where it's loud enough when the gain is turned down but not too loud when the gain is turned up.

I don't know if there's any single perfect answer, besides maybe add separate external knobs for each? That only gets complicated due to trying to keep the size of the pedal small, but anyway I'll take a look at extra room for another knob or switch, see what my options are on the hardware side.

I appreciate all the input so far, I don't expect to make a decision immediately, but this is already giving me a lot to think about. My target demographic is gigging, and I am not a gigging bassist, so I appreciate all the insight. Keep it coming!

I should do this more often, I'm not very good at it I know the final decision lies with me and I'm the only one that will have to answer for it at the end of the day. But that being said I still do like knowing what bassists think, it doesn't cost me anything to ask and get some opinions (aside from my time, but to be honest I'm already on this forum 24/7 anyway).

I can't afford to pay a market research firm to tell me what consumers are thinking, so this is my market research

First off, I want to say that you're amazing for bringing the TB world into your R&D process. Sadly for me, I'm now seriously conflicted over what pedal of yours to purchase! ( I only recently discovered your products... been trying to keep GAS at bay )

 

[semiprohooker]

Is there a possibility of making the internal trimpot have a detent for reliable "zeroing" and be somewhat accessible (either with a pop-up button press or a small access port)? Kind of a hybrid between #2 & #3.

 

[carsonchilders]

My least favorite feature of the noble is the fixed output

 

[jdjk7]

Hey everyone, quick question for you. I make a simple D.I. box that has a preamp driving the XLR output and also has an option to send the preamp output to the 1/4" output as well.

Every time I run low on circuit boards for a design I like to consider if there's anything that could be done to improve it, and this one I think is big enough I wanted to create a separate thread about it.

The "issue":

• Currently the "Level" control is shared between both the 1/4" output and the XLR output. If you're using both outputs, the knob affects both outputs at the same time.

Here are some options I was considering:

1. Keep it as-is. Don't change anything, leave it as a shared control.
2. Set the XLR as a fixed-level output (like Noble). The Level knob would continue to affect the 1/4" output, and the Gain would obviously affect both, but the XLR output would be a set level independent of the 1/4" output.
3. Add an internal trimpot for the XLR output and leave the Level knob for the 1/4" output. XLR volume would still be variable and not fixed, but it would be a set-it-and-forget-it thing that you dial in once when you're setting up your rig and never touch unless you're changing things up.
4. Add an internal trimpot for the 1/4" output and leave the Level knob for the XLR output. Same as above but swapping which control goes inside the box and which one is outside the box.

There may be other options out there that I'm not thinking of, if so please drop a comment.

Thanks

For gigging, I say XLR level on top. I'm assuming the 1/4'' output would be plugged into my equipment all the time, and so that shouldn't need to be changed much. On the other hand, the XLR out might need to go to different systems that might need levels adjusted.

 

[groovaholic]

Option #2.
It gives the player flexibility with how they feed their stage amp, but keeps the XLR send consistent to avoid irritating the sound engineer.

 

[Hasty]

Suprised by so many people in favor of trimpots, good luck explaining to the sound guy why he has to wait while you fidget with disassembling your DI pedal in front of him. Chances are you will promptly get a house DI instead and told to fix your stuff at home.

Level knob that affects both XLR and 1/4" with a pad switch for XLR is the common solution for a good reason.

In my mind, as I think about the Finally... I would only be adjusting the XLR gain if I'm swapping out one tube for another like a 12AX7 for a 12AU7. I would be doing that at home and not on stage. For my use case, once I get the gain where I want it I seldom change it... but that might not be a standard workflow for most others.

However the more I think about it beyond my own simple needs, with the consideration that the Gain still affects the overall output of both the XLR and 1/4" out, I have slightly revised my position. Since this is a hi output preamp and a DI with the ability to go from clean to dirty, if I wanted to go from mostly clean (my normal tone) to something more saturated... FOH would probably appreciate me more if I could turn down that XLR level pretty easily. The volume/gain proposition does add a layer of potential complexity and finesse.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

I like option #2

 

[groovaholic]

So the main reason I've been hesitant to do a fixed-output on the XLR is that the pedal in question has a gain knob that allows the preamp to reach the point of breakup. Since this is a tube preamp, the gain knob affects the overall level of the output signal, so I would have to fix the XLR output at a point where it's loud enough when the gain is turned down but not too loud when the gain is turned up.

Hmm...that's good reasoning.
Based on that reasoning, I'd change my vote to "Leave it the same, but add a pad to the XLR out"

 

[Sushi Box FX]

Is there a possibility of making the internal trimpot have a detent for reliable "zeroing" and be somewhat accessible (either with a pop-up button press or a small access port)? Kind of a hybrid between #2 & #3.

I'm not aware of detented trimpots, but if I were to do trimpots I would set the unit "stock" to be the level that I would have set it as fixed, and I could mark that position (quick marker stripe) on the trimpot for reference.

 

[semiprohooker]

I'm not aware of detented trimpots, but if I were to do trimpots I would set the unit "stock" to be the level that I would have set it as fixed, and I could mark that position (quick marker stripe) on the trimpot for reference.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if that existed. A marked line would be easy enough to zero in on though.

 

[chiphaleonbass]

I'm having a hard time answering this! I feel as though in studio and live the thing that needs adjusting the most is the ability to turn the XLR out up and down for FOH so that you're not clipping the pre's on their end... that being said I have used this into the EFX return of an amp and it sounded great (UA in front of the Finally) but used the XLR out post EQ out of the amp knowing that my levels were going to be adjusted at my feet. I could see the merits in being able to easily change both. I feel like most of the time though once I set my level for XLR out it doesn't get adjusted. Considering I love my DI as is, I'll leave it at that.

 

[superheavyfunk]

My target demographic is gigging, and I am not a gigging bassist, so I appreciate all the insight.

Since this is the case, I feel a bit more qualified to provide a response than I did before. If the target is specifically gigging bassists, having two easy to reach knobs is definitely preferable in my experience. A trimpot is difficult (if not nearly impossible) to tweak during a soundcheck if FOH is looking for more or less volume from the DI.

But here’s a thought: What if the trimpot (or one of those tiny knobs) was mounted so that it was exposed on the side or something? Then I could use a pick or something similar to turn it without having to open up the pedal itself

 

[Hasty]

But here’s a thought: What if the trimpot (or one of those tiny knobs) was mounted so that it was exposed on the side or something? Then I could use a pick or something similar to turn it without having to open up the pedal itself

That's exactly how I envisioned it too. But an external knob might be easier if space allows.

 

[kittywithabanjo]

As a sound guy, any time i get a bass player whose DI out on their amp or pedal is variable, I make them use my Radial JDI Infront of it.

 

[macmanlou]

A stacked control to do both XLR and 1/4" output?

 

[skyline_01]

As a very proud Finally DI owner, I'd say go with a fixed XLR output (a pad would be GREAT) and then the level controls the 1/4" only.

I use the 1/4" to my amplifier and then XLR straight to mixer or IEM/stage box. The above scenario makes the most sense, at least in my application. Perhaps I should have mine modded...

Thanks for reaching out to us folks!

 

[DaveParker39]

Have a pad for the XLR that is a fixed value. Obviously there are situations when attenuating the XLR out is helpful, but the fine tuning can happen at the board... just do a fixed pad on the unit

 

[semiprohooker]

Co-sign on the variable 1/4" and XLR pad button/switch.

 

[_One//Man//Mutiny_]

I would definitely say any option that doesn’t involve sharing a volume. Preferably the xlr as a trim pot and the external controls the 1/4.

 

[Meyatch]

Despite being a big sushibox fan, I'm not sure I have any intention of ever buying one of your standalone DI boxes, but the 2 leading poll options would be the absolute worst for my use case. I run ampless with in-ears. Before we play I always tweak my DI output level to stay consistent. I guess this is something the sound person could do with gains, but it seems to work out much quicker for me to do it. Everybody's mix stays the same.

Leave as is seems fine to me, having no accessible control for the XLR output would be a non-starter for me.