Martial Arts anyone?

[Poop-Loops]

A martial art, IMHO, is a means of self control, first and foremost. Kicking ass is relative.

So a martial art doesn't have to have anything martial about it?

 

[Aaron Saunders]

So a martial art doesn't have to have anything martial about it?

That sounds like a question better saved for the Sifu .


EDIT: Awesome comic from Bullshido member "Kickcatcher" -- I don't know if these are hosted in other places, but he put 'em all in this thread.

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[morf]

So a martial art doesn't have to have anything martial about it?

Not in 95% of the ways that term is used today, no.

To tell you the truth I've met plenty of black belts, Judo, Karate, TDK, etc. In a street fight what they know isn't worth much against someone who knows what to expect.

Now sure, martial art in the strict sense of the term means kicking ass, Bruce Lee is a fine example of that, but let's face it, there aren't many real martial artists left today.

 

[Aaron Saunders]

Careful what you say about judo. Ever been slammed by a judoka? Ever been slammed by a judoka onto concrete?

 

[morf]

Yes, repeatedly, and many times over (meaning, repeatedly each time ). My favorite uncle is a Judo black belt, and he's been throwing me around since I've been a kid.

If he keeps a cool head, and manages to grab the guy, he has a good chance to win in a street fight, but I wouldn't put the odds in his favor if the guy facing him would do anything to win.

 

[Dan Molina]

Careful what you say about judo. Ever been slammed by a judoka? Ever been slammed by a judoka onto concrete?

Yeah, imagine any of these happening to you when you're on concrete. It'll hurt even more if you don't know how to fall correctly.

 

[Aaron Saunders]

For reference of real fight + concrete + slam, I suggest taking a look at The Ultimate Fighter 5, episode 9 when Marlon and Noah get into it while drunk at the house...and Noah gets dropped on his head a couple times attempting an armbar. His head looked pretty messed up, and he only got dropped from a height of less than a couple feet.

Imagining it with those slams, Dan...man. Grim thoughts!

Yes, repeatedly, and many times over (meaning, repeatedly each time ). My favorite uncle is a Judo black belt, and he's been throwing me around since I've been a kid.

If he keeps a cool head, and manages to grab the guy, he has a good chance to win in a street fight, but I wouldn't put the odds in his favor if the guy facing him would do anything to win.

Hahahaha, good stuff. The only reason I said that was to implore to you just not to lump judo in with crap like TKD .




EDIT: Speaking of TKD, I just watched that other youtube video you showed, Dan. That...I...well...just...ew...

 

[SundanceChile]

AND FOR HUMOR (please don't send your kids to anything like this)

What. The. ****. :scowl:

 

[Dan Molina]

Yeah, it's sad how many McDojo's there are. It gives TKD a bad name. Though i'm not very keen on TKD to begin with.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Not in 95% of the ways that term is used today, no.

To tell you the truth I've met plenty of black belts, Judo, Karate, TDK, etc. In a street fight what they know isn't worth much against someone who knows what to expect.

Now sure, martial art in the strict sense of the term means kicking ass, Bruce Lee is a fine example of that, but let's face it, there aren't many real martial artists left today.

And I'm saying that's a bad thing and martial arts should get back to what they are about: fighting.

It's the people who say it should be about something else that are the problem.

 

[Poop-Loops]

If he keeps a cool head, and manages to grab the guy, he has a good chance to win in a street fight, but I wouldn't put the odds in his favor if the guy facing him would do anything to win.

Like what? I mean, a judoka isn't restricted to just throwing. They can poke eyes, bite, stomp, etc, also. The difference is that they actually know what they are doing.

 

[ric1312]

could anyone with experience such as that cited above, or elsewhere, speak to tradition vs contemporary trends?

I admire anyone who has studied anything, and certainly acknowledge that I'd be healthier if I did nothing but Tai Chi off the two DVDs I have (laughing, but serious). but I can't get past certain perceptions of tradition. Perhaps I watched Bruce Lee's biography too often, or am overly influenced by his "Tao of Jeet Kune Do." thanks. Again - I have no stake, no bias (that I know of). Just a couple simple questions. I guess one's choices also depend on what one expects of the outcome of any level of training.

I've been in martial arts since I was 14 (36) now. I hold a bb in kenpo, my favorite and and most suited to my body type. (kicks but no fu fu head kicks really lots of hands)

Anyways been in lots of other stuff.

The main thing is to make up your mind if you are doing it for fun or to really learn to defend yourself in hand to hand.

Because some schools don't practice with partners or do realistic drills for insurance reasons, or just because they don't know how to make it work.

And unfortunately A LOT of martial arts schools are really just romper rooms for kids and teens and feeding off their movie inspired martial arts fantasies. And what their students think they know would actually get them hurt worse in a fight.

Most people who have black belts in this or that system simply do not deserve them. What's worse is many of the school owners don't either.

Bottom, line if you are learning self defense you have to do it on a partner, as close as you can to actual fighting speed.

Doing katas in the air isn't good for anything but endurance and some footwork.

Best drill I ever did was just to line up the class and tell each one to throw whatever they want, and see what you do. No, pads this is not point/tag sparring. They throw one attack and you react with whatever and follow up.


You'd be suprised how many, "black belts," can't pull off anything or choke.

When you are done it's the next guys turn. Lots of other drills, but thats the simplest.

O yea, and get hit once in while. Or at least do some hard contact sparring with pads on. I can't count the number of wanna be fighters/martials artsists that gave up after just getting socked once in the face good.

The whole bruce lee fantasy of not getting hit once in a fight and whooping a whole room full of men is just that a fantasy. So, be prepared to get hit when you get in a fight and it won't freak you out.


Traditional usually equals endless forms in the air and holding stances for a long time, and perfecting form of motion so that every angle is perfect as to what the form calls for. Might as well just join dance class. Those things have their place but are generally useless for getting in an actual fight.

Hands on will teach you more in five minutes than doing kicks in the air for hours.

Get a good instructor that understands body mechanics and knows the techniques of his system, that way you can drill them with a partner, and ask him why something didn't work.

 

[ric1312]

That sounds like a question better saved for the Sifu .


EDIT: Awesome comic from Bullshido member "Kickcatcher" -- I don't know if these are hosted in other places, but he put 'em all in this thread.

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ahahahah lol, just caught this one. Actually had some fake master tell me that in a school when I was 15, even threatened me because my logic in front of his other teenie students embarassed him.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Here's the gallery of them:

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[ric1312]

Which is what's so messed up. MA isn't a religion, it's a sport. You don't have people saying "My soccer is equal to your soccer. Let's not compete and just agree."

The mystical ******** from MA needs to go.



What secrets? How many ways are there to punch and kick someone?



Yeah. After the Edo period in Japan, the goverment decided to make martial arts into activities and not fighting systems. That's how you get a lot of the useless kata and moves. It was supposed to be fun, but not useful. In China, Gong Fu was completely replaced with what we have now: dancing.

This is all documented stuff, by the way. None if it is a conspiracy or anything.



Shooting in self defense or mauling someone in self defense?

I won't be easy until someone is knocked out cold. That will take a beating. The police might not think SD was all that was on your mind. Especially with the adrenaline rush, it won't be easy to stop yourself.



I've never seen any wannabe rambos in MMA or BJJ. Those people get humbled VERY quickly and either change their attitude or leave. I've seen more cocky people in TKD and KF, because their skills are NEVER tested, they just ASSUME they are good.

It's easier to beat some sense into someone than to teach it to them.



And I wouldn't want to learn music from a most musicians. Or be friends with them.

Also, LOL at comparing opium to chilli. See how "all things are equal" just doesn't cut it?

Couldn't agree with you more on the mystical/religeon/secret technique thing.

A coulple years ago I checked out a TKD school, just for the exercise aspect.

At the beginning of class they handed out a this, "pledge page," and had everyone recite it together. BAsically it read liek the boy scouts, "I will do my best blah blah blah," for crying out loud just teach ma and quit acting like it's a cult.

Some minor brainwashing going on there.

 

[Poop-Loops]

One of my favorites:

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[Poop-Loops]

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[Dan Molina]

I've been in martial arts since I was 14 (36) now. I hold a bb in kenpo, my favorite and and most suited to my body type. (kicks but no fu fu head kicks really lots of hands)

Anyways been in lots of other stuff.

The main thing is to make up your mind if you are doing it for fun or to really learn to defend yourself in hand to hand.

Because some schools don't practice with partners or do realistic drills for insurance reasons, or just because they don't know how to make it work.

And unfortunately A LOT of martial arts schools are really just romper rooms for kids and teens and feeding off their movie inspired martial arts fantasies. And what their students think they know would actually get them hurt worse in a fight.

Most people who have black belts in this or that system simply do not deserve them. What's worse is many of the school owners don't either.

Bottom, line if you are learning self defense you have to do it on a partner, as close as you can to actual fighting speed.

Doing katas in the air isn't good for anything but endurance and some footwork.

Best drill I ever did was just to line up the class and tell each one to throw whatever they want, and see what you do. No, pads this is not point/tag sparring. They throw one attack and you react with whatever and follow up.


You'd be suprised how many, "black belts," can't pull off anything or choke.

When you are done it's the next guys turn. Lots of other drills, but thats the simplest.

O yea, and get hit once in while. Or at least do some hard contact sparring with pads on. I can't count the number of wanna be fighters/martials artsists that gave up after just getting socked once in the face good.

The whole bruce lee fantasy of not getting hit once in a fight and whooping a whole room full of men is just that a fantasy. So, be prepared to get hit when you get in a fight and it won't freak you out.


Traditional usually equals endless forms in the air and holding stances for a long time, and perfecting form of motion so that every angle is perfect as to what the form calls for. Might as well just join dance class. Those things have their place but are generally useless for getting in an actual fight.

Hands on will teach you more in five minutes than doing kicks in the air for hours.

Get a good instructor that understands body mechanics and knows the techniques of his system, that way you can drill them with a partner, and ask him why something didn't work.

The part highlighted is so true. That's the reason why grappling has been used so effectively in real life situations. In schools where grappling is taught you are constantly practicing with/on a partner. This allows you to be more effective by practicing with someone who is resisting.

I think it would be more beneficial for striking arts if they employed the same type of training.

 

[Aaron Saunders]

The part highlighted is so true. That's the reason why grappling has been used so effectively in real life situations. In schools where grappling is taught you are
constantly practicing with/on a partner. This allows you to be more effective by practicing with someone who is resisting.

I think it would be more beneficial for striking arts if they employed the same type of training.

But their chi flow might be interrupted by actual physical contact! What an outrageous suggestion!

 

[Dan Molina]

Oh god that reminds me I would love to see George Dillman get his ass kicked. His chi power if complete nonsense.