Martial Arts anyone?

[SundanceChile]

Oh god that reminds me I would love to see George Dillman get his ass kicked. His chi power if complete nonsense.

Is that the dude who claims he can knock someone down by just using his Chi?

 

[Dan Molina]

Is that the dude who claims he can knock someone down by just using his Chi?

Yeah it's that fraud.

 

[SundanceChile]

Yeah it's that fraud.

Funny thing, I've always wanted to have a sparring session with him. Just to see if he'd really throw me around the room with his Chi. Regardless, he'd probably still kick my ass, chi power or not.

 

[Dan Molina]

It seems like the only people affected by chi power are students of the same art/nonsense.


In this video the instructor can only get it to work on his students and nobody else.

 

[Aaron Saunders]

Funny thing, I've always wanted to have a sparring session with him. Just to see if he'd really throw me around the room with his Chi. Regardless, he'd probably still kick my ass, chi power or not.

Doubt it, he's a tubby bitch who's probably never taken a punch in his life. Most TB'ers would probably put him on the mat, I doubt he's ever sparred a day in his life and his arrogance and false sense of security would cause him some serious problems in any real altercation.

Either that or he'd just get on his knees and beg for survival

 

[Poop-Loops]

I think it would be more beneficial for striking arts if they employed the same type of training.

Exactly. But plenty of people claim they don't need it, or that their moves are "too deadly" to spar with. So they fill up their time with one-step moves and defense "techniques". Then I get pissed and argue for 5 pages about it.

 

[Aaron Saunders]

"Too deadly" is the best excuse ever.

"The Sifu told us not to spar, I might break your ribcage with my palm strikes."

 

[toytech]

At the Kempo dojo I tought at in my relative youth we sparred plenty, but eye gouges and windpipe chops were not allowed, even though they are very effective in a fight. Chi pushing people around, bending long steel rods with the neck are parlor tricks.

 

[Akami]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I have a hard time believing these kids can do anything regarding fighting correctly. Your body is still developing at that age. Punching, kicking, grappling etc, are all precise movements. Merely not falling on your face is not enough. Moreoever, the way you are taught MA at that age is different and doesn't exactly prepare you to eat a fist if push comes to shove.

Everything that becomes an adult, starts as a child. None of it is irrelevant.

Refresh my memory, but did Bruce Lee go to two 45-minute classes a week? No. These kids do.

Second, he learned _ing _un. He pretty much threw it away when he got to his Jeet Kun Do phase and started learning real martial arts.

Bruce Lee threw virtually nothing from Wing Chun away, even keeping the training tools.

Even if you watch his movie fights filled with unrealistic maneuvers you'll notice that much of the handwork is valid.

You seem to be quite knowledgeable, but could benefit a little from the knowledge of others as well; the value of a cup is in it's emptiness...

 

[Akami]

Or Ving Tsun depending on who you talk to. Then there are the endless "NO, MY MASTER HAS THE REAL WING CHUN!!!" lineage wars.

So I choose to say _ing _un.

So petty.

To use a couple other words in which the spelling is often disputed, should "centre" and "center" get the same treatment?
"Colour" and "color"?

Wing chun = ving tsun; taichi = taiji; gungfu = kungfu; chigong = quigong.

They're all valid spellings from common usage in different areas of the world.

 

[Aaron Saunders]

Wing Chun, Ving Tsun, etc. is often referred to as _ing _un because it's all the same crap with a different name.

Of course, say that to a chunner and you'll get a bunch of slapsies and arm waving, accompanied by some sissy yelling about how it's all in the intricacies and you just can't see it.

Not to mention the only notable practitioners of either discipline are Emin Boztepe and Henning Davarne (sp?) who differ very much from most practitioners of _ing _un in the way that they're actually quite physically fit and would be impressive if they studied any discipline. That said, I've still never seen either of them doing anything but compliant drills anyway, they just look smoother and stronger doing it


PS: Bruce Lee ditched quite a bit. Lets see, he took a lot of strikes from boxing, footwork from boxing and fencing, some strikes from muay-thai, throws, grappling, and locks from jiu-jitsu, etc. etc. keeping some basic principles and certain practice methods (including the use of wooden dummies, weapons, and chi sao exercises)

JKD = not WC in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Bruce Lee threw virtually nothing from Wing Chun away, even keeping the training tools.

LOL?

You mean like the forms? Or the center-line theory which was almost completely replaced with boxing?

Wing Chun is a disease that destroys rational thought.

Even if you watch his movie fights filled with unrealistic maneuvers you'll notice that much of the handwork is valid.

That's because it looks pretty.

You seem to be quite knowledgeable, but could benefit a little from the knowledge of others as well; the value of a cup is in it's emptiness...

Of course I could use knowledge from others. I want to learn. It's just that I'm picky about who to learn from. I don't want to waste my time learning from someone who isn't teaching anything worth while.

Or say... things I've already learned in the past and discarded because I have deemed them useless.

I mean, if you're trying to build a house and need a hammer, you won't listen to a guy who keeps telling you that all tools are equal, so you should buy his screw driver instead.

His broken screw driver, I might add.

 

[Aaron Saunders]

I mean, if you're trying to build a house and need a hammer, you won't listen to a guy who keeps telling you that all tools are equal, so you should buy his screw driver instead.

His broken screw driver, I might add.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[Akami]

Yeah. After the Edo period in Japan, the goverment decided to make martial arts into activities and not fighting systems. That's how you get a lot of the useless kata and moves. It was supposed to be fun, but not useful. In China, Gong Fu was completely replaced with what we have now: dancing.

This guy wasn't some chump, either. He had an 8th dan in TKD and really did know what he was doing. It's just the inherent flaw in forms that make them garbage.

Understandable misconceptions.

So what is the flaw in learning scales?

Whether you can make music from scales is determined by what you are thinking as you practice your scales; otherwise you become a mechanic.

Same with forms.

All the information handed down through the ages has been cataloged in forms of many different systems.

Whether they were effective in teaching fighting skills or not depended very largely upon the teacher and less upon the form.

Same with music, same with food, same with all of life.

Poor instruction can ruin anything.

Poor understanding leads to mistaken conclusions.

 

[Aaron Saunders]

Scales, music theory, etc. are the musical equivalent to learning armbar, hook, leg kick, footwork, etc.

Sparring, jamming.

Fighting, performing.

Ever tried to perform having never played anything but scales?

 

[Akami]

JKD = not WC in any way, shape, or form.

Only if you consider learning to walk before learning to climb a mountain unrelated.

He became quite proficient at wing chun before formulating his ideas for JKD.

That's because it looks pretty.

Uh, no it's not.
Looking pretty gives no validity other than for exhibition purposes.

Anyway you seem more interested in kicking opposing opinions into the corners than you do in opening your eyes.

 

[Aaron Saunders]

Looking pretty gives no validity other than for exhibition purposes.

That's funny, because I've never seen or heard of any concrete evidence of WC being used for anything OTHER than exhibition purposes.

 

[Akami]

Scales, music theory, etc. are the musical equivalent to learning armbar, hook, leg kick, footwork, etc.

Sparring, jamming.

Fighting, performing.

Ever tried to perform having never played anything but scales?

Thanks for clarifying my point.

That's funny, because I've never seen or heard of any concrete evidence of WC being used for anything OTHER than exhibition purposes.

I've been on the receiving end of it and I've had it work for me.

Most systems of fighting have a valid beginning, which then proceeds to be screwed up by ineffective teachers.

Anyway I like your simple and direct analogy above which I had intended to be taken from my post.

 

[bassfacekevin]

poops, I agree with you to a certain degree (and others on the same tack, I don't want to name them all, and you have made yourself visible,) but I still believe that you should decide for yourself what is and what is not an effective technique. Just because 94% of the time something is worthless, if it works for you, it works.

I, for one, cannot stand high kicks. I can do them, with a decent amount of accuracy and force, but in a conflict I would not trust them; I feel they put you off balance to a degree that is a gamble. However, one of my old sparring partners practiced all the high kicks, and became good with them. I saw an unfortunate incident where he had to employ them. It worked. To me, not worth it. A risky, (in my eyes) 50-50 gamble on your health and well-being is another's ace in the hole.

I know you'll prob. go ahead and pick my little anecdote apart, but I'm not trying to attack you. I'm simply saying that it doesn't hurt to learn everything you possibly can, and decide for yourself what is, and isn't, worthwhile. A "you don't have to believe everything you read" type of mindset I guess.

~K

 

[Aaron Saunders]

My point is that 99.99% of WC gyms do not spar. It's just not something taught in the core of wing chun, ving tsun, or whatever the hell you want to call it.

WC's "theories" are just that -- theories. It's not pressure tested by anyone.

"I've been on the receiving end of it and I've had it work for me" -- let's see some videos.

See, the thing is, you can find videos of just about anything now -- including hard sparring for several forms of karate, judo, thai boxing, western boxing, etc. etc. but to this day I have never found (and no one on Bullshido's forums, who've looked a hell of a lot longer than I) any videos of chunners doing anything but slapsies and compliant drills.