Seriously though, David Murray and John Purcell i believe, Howard Johnson was on the record but i think he missed the tour
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Double Bass MBOL?
- Thread starter bigshiny
- Start date
Exactly Ric,
And my question is always which upright bass sound? Arco? Pizz? Slap? And how many ways you can sound doing these styles. You almost have to have your tone baked in to where it's a PITA for the FOH engineer to change it. I mean even with HPF's I hear all kinds of low end extensions in these systems. It's almost like a game. How can I get my sound out "there" despite how he wants it to sound.
The other problem we have is the pa guys already have their eq'd and crossovers set for what they think is right. So were already screwed before we even show up.
And my question is always which upright bass sound? Arco? Pizz? Slap? And how many ways you can sound doing these styles. You almost have to have your tone baked in to where it's a PITA for the FOH engineer to change it. I mean even with HPF's I hear all kinds of low end extensions in these systems. It's almost like a game. How can I get my sound out "there" despite how he wants it to sound.
The other problem we have is the pa guys already have their eq'd and crossovers set for what they think is right. So were already screwed before we even show up.
Re: "....attachments..."
Yikes.
The only pickup he doesn't use is a Ford F-150.
So, did he wind up buying this bass or not??
(jk - slightly jealous of his chops....but, not his sound. IMO.)
I think Mr. Bromberg gets exactly the sound he wants to get, and has gone to great lengths to get it both with his electric basses (where he designed his own pickup system) and with his DB. It's not a sound that everyone appreciates, but it is his own unique and personal voice and I respect him for that. One aspect of "MBOL" that I've written about in articles through the years is "My bass, but from what vantage point?". Brian seems to be going for "his bass, close mic'd in the studio". When he plays live, he gets pretty close that, and sounds exactly like himself. There's a little extra thickness to his amplified sound in the lower mids that isn't there in his studio albums like "Wood", but other than that, it sounds exactly like Brian.
I know that I will never play with his fluency with my strings and setup much higher than he sets his. In spite of this, I have to say that I have learned a lot about what the bass is capable of from listening to Brian, and I owe him thanks for that.
I know that I will never play with his fluency with my strings and setup much higher than he sets his. In spite of this, I have to say that I have learned a lot about what the bass is capable of from listening to Brian, and I owe him thanks for that.
I'm playing all amplified gigs for the most parts these days, and most in rock club PA setups. It's taken awhile, but I'm starting to find some consistency. I'm also starting to "figure out" some rooms/sound guys after repeat gigs.
Last weekend I played a notoriously muddy, boxy room for double bass. I leaned heavy on my high pass filter, and ran pretty hot on my stage volume. Even though I DI'd as usual at the place, I didn't hear much bass being sent through the monitors. I would guess my stage volume was clear enough to keep the monitoring down. The drummer had a bit, but I don't think the two front men needed much with me playing behind them.
Previous experiences at said venue have been not so good on double bass when I've relied on the PA to carry my water. It would usually result in certain frequencies enveloping the stage, while anything above open G was inaudible on stage. The setup I used Friday was near perfect on stage. Every note clear, sitting in the mix, and no harsh peaks. At least I have one room figured out! I'm saying having no idea what FOH sounded like.
Hi Chris, always 'educational' to see your thoughtful comments.
First, I certainly do respect Brian's musicianship in much the same way as I respect Jaco's. I do not, however, have any desire to sound like either one. It may be sacrilege, but neither has a sound that I find particularly pleasing (or that I care to listen to for an extended period of time).
Re: your "My bass, but from what vantage point?" I'd like to stick my tongue in my cheek and ask "My bass but in which decade".
There are plenty of folks here on the DB side that play only GUT strings and (generally) take their sound and their inspiration from some of the giants from the 30's, 40's, or 50's. Just different strokes, as they say.
Then there is the era perhaps book-ended at the beginning by Ray Brown and best exemplified today by my personal favorite: Christian McBride.
Starting later than RB you have certain periods of Ron Carter with the early 'direct to board' sound recordings. Again, I have the utmost respect for RC's musicianship, but that was not a sound I cared for.
Obviously, there is no one 'best' sound. There is only the ideal sound each of us hears in our own head. I have found that sound for myself (such as on last Thursdays gig which I wrote about above). I am not always able to achieve it, but when I do I am in musical Nirvana.
Here is CM with a sound that 'for me' is perfect.
Peace
I would agree but that diagram is not current. I've seen Christian many times, I've talked to him on the phone, after gigs and my wife's company did a special TV feature on him. I've posted most of this in separate threads. Certainly he wouldn't know me from a hole in the wall.
He does use the AMT to run to the house and the piezo is run to an amp. He doesn't carry an amp for the most part, he works with whatever is provided, assuming he has say in the backline. I've seen him use an SWR blonde, Eden 410XLT/WT amp, avalon U5 and many other amps. I've sat less then 10 feet away from him in small and large venues. I've also sat in the back of the room. I've spoken with him, the producer and cameraman of the TV shoot. He gets his sound because he has a strong voice on the instrument and I would guess his stature commands lots of respect and some of the better engineers. They did a shoot at his house and I know the cameraman and producer, they got a great sound from his bass and they have little experience on these matters.
I do carry an AMT and only take it out if there is FOH but no longer use it with my amp. I have a cheap looper pedal, for both electric and DB gigs I lay down a line and then walk the room whenever possible. If I can put a short set of changes into the loop and can convince the group to play along I will walk the room that way as well. My goal is to not sound bad,
The reason I use a microphone thru my amp is that I want to hear that 'recording studio sound' that CB gets. When I'm lucky that's pretty much what I get. Thanks to the mic I am using feedback and bleed are virtually non-existent.
Rickwolff,
Your statement about which decade is very true. Some of us play a specific genre and time period. This in turn has us narrowing our tone goals to a particular period and style. The bands that we all play in are all different. Again, we all play an upright bass. But we are all chasing "that" sound down different streets. Just my .02
Your statement about which decade is very true. Some of us play a specific genre and time period. This in turn has us narrowing our tone goals to a particular period and style. The bands that we all play in are all different. Again, we all play an upright bass. But we are all chasing "that" sound down different streets. Just my .02
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
If there is a secret to his sound it's him. Period. Nobody else will sound like him on his bass.
Yes, I really like his sound, although I would of use more bottom. Just a tad.
I agree about a 'tad' more bottom. That's why I have been blending in a little Lifeline with my Ischell, lately.
And, of course, no one else is going to sound 'like him' even if they play his bass. My point about his 'secret sauce' is that I think he is able to transmit that unique CM sound partly because he is playing through a good microphone.
I'd wager that if he skipped the microphone and went JUST thru a pizzo his sound would be very different.
Christian is just not a good example I would be very happy to take that wager. I saw him in the Rose Theatre at Lincoln Center 1500 seats maybe, sat first row for the first set and listened to his piezo coming through an Eden rig. I took the cheap seats for the second set. I've seen him in Dizzy's club (maybe 150 capacity) using the SWR and had a table right up on stage and stood in the back of the room for the second set. The acoustics of the big room of course have a big impact on tone when you are in the back of the room. In the small room I'm not sure the mic went to anything live in the room, just recorded or a video feed.
MY BASS ONLY BETTER Back to the OP's original question re: HOW LOUD.
I have determined that for me (as I posted earlier) when the pianist can't hear himself and the drummer is wearing ear-plugs, that is TOO LOUD to even want to get MBOL.
SO...for those few too loud gigs that I have I will bring my plywood bass on which I have a KRIVO Mag pickup AND and AKG C411 Contact pickup/mic. This bass certainly doesn't have all the complex acoustic goodness of my carved bass, but it has a nice clear sound that I think will really cut through in those louder situations. Here's a little clip I just did to try it with JUST the AKG contact mic > Headway > GB Shuttle > MAS 26, with the recorder about 6 inches in front of the speaker.
And, yes, it needs more bottom. I realized that when I listened to the clip. I can either EQ or blend in the Krivo.
I have determined that for me (as I posted earlier) when the pianist can't hear himself and the drummer is wearing ear-plugs, that is TOO LOUD to even want to get MBOL.
SO...for those few too loud gigs that I have I will bring my plywood bass on which I have a KRIVO Mag pickup AND and AKG C411 Contact pickup/mic. This bass certainly doesn't have all the complex acoustic goodness of my carved bass, but it has a nice clear sound that I think will really cut through in those louder situations. Here's a little clip I just did to try it with JUST the AKG contact mic > Headway > GB Shuttle > MAS 26, with the recorder about 6 inches in front of the speaker.
And, yes, it needs more bottom. I realized that when I listened to the clip. I can either EQ or blend in the Krivo.
Peter, I have to bow to your far greater knowledge of CM. I have not yet had the pleasure of hearing him live.
I don't know what chance there is (slim to none, perhaps) that he will answer me, but I just sent him an email asking for take on the mic/piezzo thing. If I should hear from him I will certainly let y'all know (as well as printing out and framing his reply).
Hey Rick, I bet you love his sound here.. haha
I have a funny video of him on a cruise ship.. it sounds like him but you know that's not his sound compared to the usual he gets.. it's funny to see that the pro's even have to deal with poopie sound too.. ha..
- in the beginning when he comes in, the sound guy messes up his sound! haha doesn't even have it in the system! too good..
and here is how he is supposed to sound realistically as a reference to the other vids ..
I have a funny video of him on a cruise ship.. it sounds like him but you know that's not his sound compared to the usual he gets.. it's funny to see that the pro's even have to deal with poopie sound too.. ha..
- in the beginning when he comes in, the sound guy messes up his sound! haha doesn't even have it in the system! too good..
and here is how he is supposed to sound realistically as a reference to the other vids ..
