Melodic minor...

[misterCRUSH]

I am a jazzer, and looking to incorporate melodic minor into my playing. I am having a hard time because it doesn't sound very, well...melodic to me. I'm looking for ways to incorporate it in walking lines and solos with the standards. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Play on!

 

[BassChuck]

Find songs in minor and play the melody. Don't worry about melodic or harmonic forms of the scale, just get the sound of a minor melody in your ear. Most modes have a 'minor' quality to them. Play the scale and improvise a melody with it.

 

[Malcolm35]

I also find Melodic minor to not be very melodic. IMO it is just too close to the major scale. The b3 needs some help. Dorian has both the b3 and the b7 and is my favorite minor sound. Just add the b7 to your melodic minor notes and see if that gets closer to what you are looking for.

This may help. Invalid Link Removed

 

[AGCurry]

The melodic minor scale is fairly uncommon in "real life," so it's to be expected that it would be a challenge incorporating into your jazz playing. I think its value is in raising our awareness that there is more than one minor scale!

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I am a jazzer, and looking to incorporate melodic minor into my playing. I am having a hard time because it doesn't sound very, well...melodic to me. I'm looking for ways to incorporate it in walking lines and solos with the standards. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Play on!

There are so many threads about that Melodic Minor at TB.

(We used to have a lot of discussions about Music Theory/Harmony at TB.
Now, the younger musicians are heading to those Youtube Informercials where is 10 minutes you can learn Music Harmony.)


Here is one of them.

Melodic minor mode? (Music theory)

Here is another one.

Minor ii-V-I in Jazz... WTH?

 

[SLO Surfer]

I am a jazzer, and looking to incorporate melodic minor into my playing.

You don’t incorporate melodic minor…Melodic minor incorporates YOU.

 

[SteveCS]

I am a jazzer, and looking to incorporate melodic minor into my playing. I am having a hard time because it doesn't sound very, well...melodic to me. I'm looking for ways to incorporate it in walking lines and solos with the standards. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Play on!

It is worth putting a little historical context around this.

In the beginning, The Minor Scale was the Natural Minor scale: Tonic, major 2nd, Minor 3rd, Perfect 4th, Perfect 5th, Minor 6th, Minor 7th. In A, the notes are A, B, C, D, E, F, G (which you might recognise as the Aeolian mode). The relationship between the minor and major keys was established based on the 6th note of the major scale - so A minor became Relative Minor to C Major, and adopted the same key signature.

Not long after the dawn of time as counterpoint, polyphony and common practice functional harmony developed, a convention was established which meant that every key must have a 'Leading tone'. In other words, the last note of the scale must be a semi-tone below the tonic. So, in A minor, G became G# and Harmonic Minor was born. The reasons for this are quite solid - raising the leading tone in the key changes the dominant chord from minor to major - v becomes V, which in turn preserves the internal mechanics of the cadences, in particular the perfect cadence V - i that were so important in the functional harmory of the music of the time, hence the name Harmonic minor.

Around the same time, folks realised that the harmonic minor scale was difficult to sing due to the Augmented 2nd between the 6th and newly-raised 7th degrees (F > G#). In order to alleviate the pain and suffering of the singers the gap was closed by raising the 6th and, because singers tend to sing melodies, the Melodic Minor was born. Within the classical domain, melodic minor retains identity with Natural Minor/Aeolian Mode when descending - the accidentals are only used when ascending. This is generally not the case in contemporary/jazz domains.

Interestingly, throughout all of this, the Key Signatures were never modified - A minor continued with to share its signature with C Major. So the modified notes were, by convention, notated with Accidentals.

But even more interesting, and perhaps of more practical value to the improviser, is that both the minor and major 6th and 7th intervals are considered diatonic within the minor key, so really there is no need to lose much sleep over which minor scale you are playing - in the final reckoning they are all just 'minor'.

YMMV

 

[Malcolm35]

Good read. I'll spend some more time with this.

 

[misterCRUSH]

reverting back to Dorian lol.

 

[attackz]

Try using a pentatonic scale to hint at melodic minor, like a major b3 pentatonic e.g C D Eb G A.
I find that easier to phrase, and mechanically more familiar.

 

[g-dude]

Melodic minor is great if you want to play in a minor key, but want the IV and V chords to be major.

If you want melodic minor to sound “better”, remember to play it as a natural minor when descending.

 

[Bob_Ross]

There are two points I like to make to beginning jazz musicians struggling to understand how to use [sic] the Melodic Minor scale. The first one @SteveCS already mentioned: A strict Melodic Minor scale has a different construction ascending than descending; the variation that has identical (1-2-b3-4-5-6-7) construction ascending and descending is more commonly referred to as the "Jazz Melodic Minor" or sometimes simply "Jazz Minor" scale.

But ^^^that point is mostly trivia, or a curiosity (...though it's a handy distinction to make if you're trying to understand what other musicians are doing and/or trying to communicate with other musicians). The second point I like to make has far more of an impact on how one hears and uses the (Jazz) Melodic Minor scale:

It rarely gets deployed as built on the root of the chord of the moment.

The archetypal sound of the Jazz Melodic Minor scale isn't created by playing (for example) an Ab Jazz Melodic Minor scale over an Ab minor chord. Rather, it's created by playing an Ab Jazz Melodic Minor scale over an F dominant 7th chord...or over an Eb dominant 7th chord...or over a Db dominant 7th chord...etc. iow, Jazz Melodic Minor is more commonly used as a way to harness tensions over dominant shells than as a way to convey "minor" over minor chords

 

[misterCRUSH]

There are two points I like to make to beginning jazz musicians struggling to understand how to use [sic] the Melodic Minor scale. The first one @SteveCS already mentioned: A strict Melodic Minor scale has a different construction ascending than descending; the variation that has identical (1-2-b3-4-5-6-7) construction ascending and descending is more commonly referred to as the "Jazz Melodic Minor" or sometimes simply "Jazz Minor" scale.

But ^^^that point is mostly trivia, or a curiosity (...though it's a handy distinction to make if you're trying to understand what other musicians are doing and/or trying to communicate with other musicians). The second point I like to make has far more of an impact on how one hears and uses the (Jazz) Melodic Minor scale:

It rarely gets deployed as built on the root of the chord of the moment.

The archetypal sound of the Jazz Melodic Minor scale isn't created by playing (for example) an Ab Jazz Melodic Minor scale over an Ab minor chord. Rather, it's created by playing an Ab Jazz Melodic Minor scale over an F dominant 7th chord...or over an Eb dominant 7th chord...or over a Db dominant 7th chord...etc. iow, Jazz Melodic Minor is more commonly used as a way to harness tensions over dominant shells than as a way to convey "minor" over minor chords

Thanks! That is REALLY helpful!!!

 

[Don Kasper]

There are two points I like to make to beginning jazz musicians struggling to understand how to use [sic] the Melodic Minor scale. The first one @SteveCS already mentioned: A strict Melodic Minor scale has a different construction ascending than descending; the variation that has identical (1-2-b3-4-5-6-7) construction ascending and descending is more commonly referred to as the "Jazz Melodic Minor" or sometimes simply "Jazz Minor" scale.

But ^^^that point is mostly trivia, or a curiosity (...though it's a handy distinction to make if you're trying to understand what other musicians are doing and/or trying to communicate with other musicians). The second point I like to make has far more of an impact on how one hears and uses the (Jazz) Melodic Minor scale:

It rarely gets deployed as built on the root of the chord of the moment.

The archetypal sound of the Jazz Melodic Minor scale isn't created by playing (for example) an Ab Jazz Melodic Minor scale over an Ab minor chord. Rather, it's created by playing an Ab Jazz Melodic Minor scale over an F dominant 7th chord...or over an Eb dominant 7th chord...or over a Db dominant 7th chord...etc. iow, Jazz Melodic Minor is more commonly used as a way to harness tensions over dominant shells than as a way to convey "minor" over minor chords

It IS "...deployed as built on the root of the chord of the moment...") when the chord is specifically a Minor/Major7th - as in the first two chords of B.Strayhorn's Chelsea Bridge (Bbmin/maj7, Abmin/maj7.)
(Or, Nica's Dream by H.Silver.)
See below.

Also - (as mentioned earlier), the ascending/descending form issue is no longer a common practice since the mid/late 20th century - Modern Jazz players regularly play the scale the same in both directions with Natural 6th/Major 7th.
IME.
IMFO, of course.
Thanks.

 

[JonathanPDX]

The most common use I see of melodic minor is as a sub over dominant chords. You can think of it as starting from the 7th rather than the root, and that 7th is the actual root of your dominant chord. So playing C melodic minor over a B7 chord gives you a cool altered dominant sound, which you hear from blues guys with more jazz knowledge, like Robben Ford.

I actually asked Steve Bailey this question recently, to see if there was some other obvious way to apply melodic minor into real-world settings, and he said he pretty much thinks of it the same way, building from the 7th over Dom chords. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

 

[Spin Doctor]

The most common use I see of melodic minor is as a sub over dominant chords. You can think of it as starting from the 7th rather than the root, and that 7th is the actual root of your dominant chord. So playing C melodic minor over a B7 chord gives you a cool altered dominant sound, which you hear from blues guys with more jazz knowledge, like Robben Ford.

I actually asked Steve Bailey this question recently, to see if there was some other obvious way to apply melodic minor into real-world settings, and he said he pretty much thinks of it the same way, building from the 7th over Dom chords. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

Yeah this is all true. You can also use melodic minor anyplace you would use dorian, if you want added color tones. IMO, coming up with different colors/vocabulary is the whole point of using MM in various intervals, over Dominant 7th chords. When I do use it, I tend to play it in diatonic triad sequences, or triad pairs. I rarely play it as an actual scale.

Janek Gwizdala's "Practice to Performance" book will have you understanding Melodic Minor inside and out, if you are willing to put in the work.

 

[SteveCS]

...
Natural 6th/Major 7th.

Sorry Don, don't know what you mean by Natural 6th.... Diminished, Minor, Major or Augmented - pick your poison?

If by Natural you mean from the Natural Minor Scale (or Aeolian mode), then putting in the ^7 gives you the Harmonic Minor scale.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Sorry Don, don't know what you mean by Natural 6th.... Diminished, Minor, Major or Augmented - pick your poison?

If by Natural you mean from the Natural Minor Scale (or Aeolian mode), then putting in the ^7 gives you the Harmonic Minor scale.

I think here is what Don meant to say.
(Let Don rest, please. He works a lot. )

 

[Don Kasper]

Sorry Don, don't know what you mean by Natural 6th.... Diminished, Minor, Major or Augmented - pick your poison?

If by Natural you mean from the Natural Minor Scale (or Aeolian mode), then putting in the ^7 gives you the Harmonic Minor scale.

Sorry - I meant Major 6th (from the Major Scale.)
My mistake.
Thanks, SteveCS.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I think here is what Don meant to say.
(Let Don rest, please. He works a lot. )

View attachment 4751101

WUTP, you always come up with the most interesting examples, lol.

But, I have a problem with this one. A couple actually.

1st, that enharmonic spelling makes me itch. Melodic Minor is simply a major scale with a flat third. So that's all it need to be. 2nd, there are no songs written in a "Melodic Minor Key" that I've ever heard of, so saying melodic minor has a "key signature" makes no sense to me. 90% of the time melodic minor is simply an embellishment over a dominant 7th chord, so whatever notes you use should be referenced from the existing key signature.

I think some theorists make music much more difficult than it needs to be, but I'm happy to entertain opposing viewpoints. I might learn something.