Mesa Boogie Walkabout Mega-thread Part 10

[agedhorse]

funny, gk guys complain that the bigger amps (1001, 2001) don't have it (growl) like the smaller ones. my experience has born that out.

I would expect in part for many of the same reasons I have suggested. With smaller power amps operated near their limits, there are some things that can happen that prove to be a positive effect for some players (and these same effects can be a big negative to other players).

 

[agedhorse]

Wouldn't the bb750 with added eq get us a lot of the way there? I hear that amp could use a bit more power as well though.

Except that it would be maybe 10-15 pounds heavier than the existing WA. This appears to be a non-starter in many player's book these days.

 

[kringle77]

I actually just saw that the titan is about 28lbs which is only a few more than my eden wt800 and a few less than my hartke lh1000. I may have to check it out. Too bad you can't blend the channels though. The power is right and the eq is almost enough.

 

[Al Kraft]

funny, gk guys complain that the bigger amps (1001, 2001) don't have it (growl) like the smaller ones. my experience has born that out.

It's because they're not pushing the power amp far enough to hit the rails. Bob Gallien specifically talked about this in a an interview I read. He suggested that for players who really like the unique way the GK power amps respond when they're pushed hard may be happier with the lower powered RB 's rather than stepping up to the higher power versions which are producing mega volume before they can get that signature sound.

For me as an engineer the subtle difference here is that Bob found a way to give a solid state "power amp" a unique and desirable sound when taken to the limits. However, because the artifact is related specifically to the "power amp", it is only present along with serious volume (for obvious reasons). For those who like the tube break-up/warmth/grit/whatever associated with pushing a tube "preamp" you can probably get a lot of what you like at varying output volumes.

 

[Al Kraft]

I get it, but, point was, that, giving the models more power did not change the tone all that much; they were just louder versions of the model that came before it.

Especially as a clean player I would agree with this 100%. The GK tone stack and other signature characteristics, as well as GK's very open and present voice in a mix were all pretty much preserved.

 

[jwindham]

Just thought I'd add my own experience with the BB750. Overall, I wasn't as enthused with the BB750 as the walkabout. I found the BB750 to be sharp & cutting, but lacking the richness & warm fundamental/cushion under the notes in comparison. I also found it a touch picky about cabinet type. Very loud, but seemed a lil stiff/brash to me vs the more "weighted" feel of the Titan V12 or the lively energy of the Walkabout. However, this was my impression of one particular BB750 I played. The eq of the BB750 is a bit simpler to figure out vs the V12, but I feel the V12 also allows a for a broader tonal spectrum to shape your sound. I just wish the V12 had a simpler eq section ( Ive always been a simpleton in this regard).

Ive never owned the Walkabout, but I have played through one many times. Into an efficient single or pair of 12s/15s, as we know, it just has such rich harmonics that feel so detailed/vibrant. Its the "explosiveness" of that energy in the harmonics, without being overly brash/stiff, along with that thick thrust of mids/air moving that I find so enjoyable. The V12 gets quite close IMO, but seems to miss out on just a touch of the saturated warmth & immediacy the walkabout is loaded with. The Walkabout's richness also makes its tone seem much more "together" and "cohesive" rather than being broken into a looser disconnect of lows, mids, and highs Ive found in some higher powered heads. Reminds me a bit of the explosive, saturated, lockstep attack of an old GK 400/800rb, but with the character, warmth, and mid-punch of sweet vintage SVT.

That said, when its asked to push more than it can, that rich saturation starts to turn into hard peak distortion. But, its still a great, great amp as we all know. For me, the Walkabout tone with more cushion under the notes to keep things full, and round in the low-end without getting blurry as the volume goes up = all anyone could ever ask for!

 

[Latitude94941]

Wow... haven't checked in on this thread in awhile--lots going on.

1) re tube rolling: I had the chance to run a lot of new and NOS tubes through my Walkabout (on the same day, at the same time). A NOS 60's Telefunken 12AX7 in V1 was the clear winner for me. Tubes in V2 made much less of a difference. I think Tom Bowlus independently came to the same conclusions.

2) re a higher powered Walkabout: agree with everyone to have it be cleaner up to 300 watts, etc, and to NOT utilize a Class D power section (note: I also happily gig a D-800, so not just saying this out of blind faith). Andy (@agedhorse): I love the feel of the power section of my M6 Carbine. As a rough starting place what would happen if the WA pre was mated to the power section of the M6?

Also, if Mesa is seriously considering a higher-powered WA: I think it would be a good idea to please consider using some of the die-hard Walkabout users from this forum as beta testers as your designs get finalized.

 

[Jeff Moote]

The tone and the sweet spot are fairly inseparable, they go hand in hand because of the architecture. It shares a lot of similarities to a guitar amp in this respect.

Right, there's no disputing this. It's more practical to produce a desired tone at a lower volume and then reinforce it than it is to produce the desired tone only at a specified higher volume and not have the flexibility to turn down. Of course especially as bassists we don't always have the luxury of PA reinforcement, which is why this discussion is happening in the first place, but it's important to be clear that the sweet spot of operation for an amp is a shortcoming that we live with for the tone, not a the preferred case.

 

[D-Smith]

I have considered using 2 of the 300 watt power amp sections and one way, but you would not be able to get 600 watts into a single 4 ohm cabinet... a deal breaker to some.

The 1/2 power method that the Prodigy uses doesn't apply here. Totally different type of amp.

So no way to just use one power amp when looking for lower power and bridge the two power amps for more? I'm just remembering back to the SWR SM-400 I owned ages ago.

 

[agedhorse]

So no way to just use one power amp when looking for lower power and bridge the two power amps for more? I'm just remembering back to the SWR SM-400 I owned ages ago.

No, not effectively because the scaling wouldn't track what's happening in the WA. The challenge is to duplicate what's happening at a higher power level, but the very changing of the power level by bridging represents a different mechanism that does not scale.

This is exactly the challenge that guitar players face when they want that rich, mildly overdriven harmonics tone, this lends itself to a particular type of power amp and usually much smaller than 100 watts because specific design parameters between the two platforms (other than power) change dramatically and do not scale.

 

[the yeti]

...the very changing of the power level by bridging represents a different mechanism that does not scale.
.

shrodinger's amp?

 

[agedhorse]

shrodinger's amp?

Very much so

 

[svtb15]

I always thought the WA has a cohesiveness between the Lows, Mids and Highs that many other amps don't have.
I tube rolled an old Jan 12ax7 in VI.. and the amp cleaned up a bit... The MESA tube ( appears to be a rebranded JJ-- not sure) is harmonically richer

 

[Al Kraft]

I always thought the WA has a cohesiveness between the Lows, Mids and Highs that many other amps don't have.
I tube rolled an old Jan 12ax7 in VI.. and the amp cleaned up a bit... The MESA tube ( appears to be a rebranded JJ-- not sure) is harmonically richer

The Mesa tubes have been perfect for me in my amps. I tend to stick with OEM parts when I have a piece of gear that "I really like right out of the box" - which OBTW is pretty much the screen-in criteria for something I'd buy.

 

[Luke the Fluke]

The tone and the sweet spot are fairly inseparable, they go hand in hand because of the architecture. It shares a lot of similarities to a guitar amp in this respect.

Wait- are you telling me that the amp I love, and caused me to stop ever looking at any other amps - is actually a disguised guitar amp???

I joke of course!

The other way around than producing a more powerful walkabout would be making some more sensitive cabs designed to pair with it or lower power tube amps.

 

[agedhorse]

Wait- are you telling me that the amp I love, and caused me to stop ever looking at any other amps - is actually a disguised guitar amp???

I joke of course!

Not exactly, but it does share some of the very concepts that go along with tube guitar amp designs

The other way around than producing a more powerful walkabout would be making some more sensitive cabs designed to pair with it or lower power tube amps.

The Subway cabinets are more efficient and match up well, especially with regard to low end tightness.

 

[SBrown]

I agree with Luke. My D.I.Y. 1x15's with 3015's (non-lf) just sing with the walkabout. I don't know what i'd do with more power, it's so loud already. Mine are VERY similar to GB uber 115's, but built with lightweight materials. Here's a ridiculous statement, but I'll say it anyway- "I may never buy another amp!"

 

[rodl2005]

I can't see why. ..if 13lbs ain't that much bother. . (It sure ain't to me) that why folk that want a higher powered WA just don't tape 2 together with gaffa (duct....well - cloth actually) tape.
Ya catch my drift?
You'd have one for gigs that don't need huge volume and simply add the other when needed.
I did. Worked great. 90% of the time I used just a one tho. I found the WA to be a honest 300w ...getting similar levels as other 300w amps. ..including the SVT...but of course the all tube will go on with it in its own way.
Anyway. ... carry on. ..

 

[Yogi Bear]

Just received this the other day. Very big/full sound matched with the Genzler's - though, I won't have time to play in a band setting for about 2 weeks, but am anxious to give this setup a try. Playing through a G&L LB100, currently wearing chromes.

When comparing to some previous class D heads I've owned, a TH500, MB Fusion 500, Tech 21 VT500 and a Mesa D800, I notice more tonal richness with the WA - with the D800 being a close 2nd.

It's early to say, but I can't imagine me needing more than this!

 

[pfschim]

ah, man. this makes me nostalgic for my Walkabout (shhh, its sitting right behind me ).

Like a number of us WA fans, I gave it up as my working amp because of the saggy thing that happened to it when pushed over ~12:00 (depending on EQ settings).
I always absolutely loved the tone of it, just not its upper end power challenges. The initial way I got around that was to move to bigger, efficient, multi-driver cabs - the WA just kills through a Berg NV610 .. kills! but of course there is the haul issue with the cab. I also ran the WA thru my long time regular cab, CN212. The WA does pretty well through that sweet cab too, but again, it will run out of juice when the going gets tough (loud with no bass in FOH).

I still take it (along with the WA 1x12 combo cab) to most of my sessions calls and always ask if I can use it instead of the provided DI set up. The combination of 10/20% mic'd cab and 80/90% WA DI is just wonderful. Lots of engineers like it and thank me for the suggestion.

More Powerful WA?
Last year, I finally replaced my WA with a Demeter VTBP-400-M800D and I have been very very happy with that little beast. Dialed it in very easily, and the V knob just keeps on delivering the tone without the sag I got used to with the WA.

Funny thing though, after about 6 months, I had some time on my hands at a decent rehearsal studio (good acoustics, little outside noise), and I decided to A/B the Demeter and the WA thru the CN212. I had not touched the WA for 6 months (sorry amp) so my settings were my usual. I set the WA up first and gave it a listen .. kind of surprised me .. then, I flipped the cab connector over to the Demeter ... ha, I was laughing at myself, and the fact that I had basically set the Demeter EQ up to sound pretty much like the WA. Not exactly the same, but waaay more similar than not.

so, it is just a "tone in my head" thing .. and I guess its not that surprising seeing as how I've been playing for a million years and seem to have that tone tattooed on to the audio section of my brain.

WA is a great amp, I'll never part with mine. I may not use it all that much for live work anymore, but its a permanent fixture in my gear closet.