Mesa Boogie Walkabout Mega-thread Part 10

[Al Kraft]

No question in my mind that my Walkabout with my CN212 cab is a winning combination - better than anything else I've tried. Those two items complement each other as if they were designed to go together. A little more horsepower would be nice, but as compromises go, the sound/tone makes it easy to live with.

 

[kringle77]

A little rant here. First off, I have unquestionable respect for agedhorse, so nothing I have to say is against him.

I've talked to mesa 3 times recently and each time, I get conflicting information, sometimes in the same sentence. Sometimes delivered with a condiscending attitude. The short story is that they are pushing everyone to buy the new subway amps and nothing else. You know, no used amps that they aren't making profit on.

I have owned and played many mesa products and when they flat out tell you that the d800 sounds just like the walkabout when you just told them you owned both and they arent, it makes you wonder. When one guy tells you the mp600 is exactly a walkabout with more eq and power and the next guy says they have nothing in common, you wonder. When almost everyone who owns a walkabout says the bb750 and titan sound very much like a walkabout, especially compared to the d800, but mesa says they have nothing to do with each other, you wonder. When everyone says the bb750 and v12 are more mid voiced and tighter in the bottom than the mp600 but, mesa tells you it's super scooped like an svt and you tell them you own an svt, have put it on a frequency analyzer and that it's actually pretty flat, they give you passive aggressive attitude, that's an issue.

All I wanted was to get some guidance from the source and they seemed more interested in not giving out some secret details and just selling the d800. I said that I planned to buy a titan and was told that the mpulse, bb750 and titan all were discontinued because they are unstable and will all fail, and not to buy one. That shows a lot of faith in your premium priced American product. My conversations have done nothing to make me open my wallet for a new product.

Has there really been an overwhelming number of titan amps over heating, cutting out, failing, etc?

 

[Worldeeeter]

A little rant here. First off, I have unquestionable respect for agedhorse, so nothing I have to say is against him.

I've talked to mesa 3 times recently and each time, I get conflicting information, sometimes in the same sentence. Sometimes delivered with a condiscending attitude. The short story is that they are pushing everyone to buy the new subway amps and nothing else. You know, no used amps that they aren't making profit on.

I have owned and played many mesa products and when they flat out tell you that the d800 sounds just like the walkabout when you just told them you owned both and they arent, it makes you wonder. When one guy tells you the mp600 is exactly a walkabout with more eq and power and the next guy says they have nothing in common, you wonder. When almost everyone who owns a walkabout says the bb750 and titan sound very much like a walkabout, especially compared to the d800, but mesa says they have nothing to do with each other, you wonder. When everyone says the bb750 and v12 are more mid voiced and tighter in the bottom than the mp600 but, mesa tells you it's super scooped like an svt and you tell them you own an svt, have put it on a frequency analyzer and that it's actually pretty flat, they give you passive aggressive attitude, that's an issue.

All I wanted was to get some guidance from the source and they seemed more interested in not giving out some secret details and just selling the d800. I said that I planned to buy a titan and was told that the mpulse, bb750 and titan all were discontinued because they are unstable and will all fail, and not to buy one. That shows a lot of faith in your premium priced American product. My conversations have done nothing to make me open my wallet for a new product.

Has there really been an overwhelming number of titan amps over heating, cutting out, failing, etc?

 

[the yeti]

Has there really been an overwhelming number of titan amps over heating, cutting out, failing, etc?

Mesa Titan - sad news...is it worth it?

there was a heat problem or something. maybe you're getting people who are following a script? either way it sucks.

 

[adam montminy]

I've had frustrating experiences with Mesa customer service in the last couple years but I'm surprised to hear them say that stuff about the Titan and BB failing. That sounds like either they were being brutally honest about their products failing or they just REALLY wanted to sell you a new amp. Either way, it sounds like this person needs to exercise a bit more discretion.
I never posted any of my experiences because I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt and assumed mine was an isolated incident, especially after reading on TB about how great their customer service was. It's a rather long story so I won't get into it but I will summarize by saying that I was pretty displeased with the individual I spoke with many many times during this ongoing issue and I decided to have my Walkabout repaired locally and it has been flawless ever since. It's a great amp and I will use it unless/until I find something I like better and if I ever need to have it serviced again, I will take it to my local tech even though it is still under warranty.
I'd like to point out that I see my experiences as a reflection of this particular customer service individual, not Mesa on the whole. I think Mesa makes fantastic products at fair prices.

 

[agedhorse]

Kringle - no disrespect intended, but perhaps you are reading something into this that just isn't there? I know that you have stated on TB some technical things as fact that just aren't true and have argued with me about it. Maybe you are not understanding what was being said, or asked your question as a statement of fact that wasn't quite right? I don't know, but the guys are not intentionally misleading you, maybe they are not answering the question you think you are asking them.

Regarding the big MOSFET amps (Titan, BB, M9), there have been ongoing challenges with regards to the consistency of meeting the promised specifications of the MOSFETs in these models, and there is the added factor of drift to some parts. These are a special dual die part, quite unique sole source, highly spec'd and graded. It turns out that even with all the additional efforts, there is more variability delivered than is promised, but not to all parts, just a higher than expected percentage. This is the basis for the upgrades to any amp with a problem stemming from MOSFETs. This is not something that anybody wanted to happen, or could predict based upon what appears to be realistic marketing of these parts. In fact, I don't think the parts manufacturer expected such a challenge either. In any event, we have stood by these amps and will continue to support them. Of course there are other run of the mill type issues common with all amps, but this was somewhat unique.

The Subways have been super reliable, and many players who have previously played these amps have successfully and happily migrated to the D800 and especially to the PLUS version. This may be why customer service suggested this option to you as well. If that's not your cup of tea, that's fine, don't buy/play one, but others might have a different experience than you.

Hope this helps.

 

[TuneMan]

I've had frustrating experiences with Mesa customer service in the last couple years but I'm surprised to hear them say that stuff about the Titan and BB failing. That sounds like either they were being brutally honest about their products failing or they just REALLY wanted to sell you a new amp. Either way, it sounds like this person needs to exercise a bit more discretion.
I never posted any of my experiences because I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt and assumed mine was an isolated incident, especially after reading on TB about how great their customer service was. It's a rather long story so I won't get into it but I will summarize by saying that I was pretty displeased with the individual I spoke with many many times during this ongoing issue and I decided to have my Walkabout repaired locally and it has been flawless ever since. It's a great amp and I will use it unless/until I find something I like better and if I ever need to have it serviced again, I will take it to my local tech even though it is still under warranty.
I'd like to point out that I see my experiences as a reflection of this particular customer service individual, not Mesa on the whole. I think Mesa makes fantastic products at fair prices.

I've had an MP600 for about 12 years, went on many, many gigs with no problems at all. Had a BB750 for about 6 years with no problems, same with the Carbine M6 and the Walkabout. I've had a couple of guitar amp issues, but customer service was great.

 

[Worldeeeter]

No question in my mind that my Walkabout with my CN212 cab is a winning combination - better than anything else I've tried. Those two items complement each other as if they were designed to go together. A little more horsepower would be nice, but as compromises go, the sound/tone makes it easy to live with.

This is great news. I just procured an HDN212, and I'll be doing some side-by-side testing with my Walkabout, B|Amp, and Handbox R-400 (when it shows up) through the 212.

 

[kringle77]

Agedhorse, thanks for the reply. I am a metering and instrumentation tech in a power utility group and only understand audio electronics enough to do repairs and be dangerous so, of course, I can admittedly be wrong about lots of things. I owned the d800 and on paper, the d800+ looks like my dream amp, but it wasn't. When you are explaining that you have used certain amps, that they have not a lot in common and someone is trying to tell you the exact opposite, you start to wonder if that person actually has any experience or tech knowledge of the product. For example, has anyone ever say with a sansamp bed I and a vintage act playing through the same cab and remotely thought that they sound the same? I've done it and they don't. Yet, there are 1000 players who have never played an old svt swear that they do. That's the feeling I've gotten talking to a few different mesa guys. In the end I'll just have to trust my ears and gig experience. I just picked up a blackface titan and hope there aren't any issues. Thanks Horse, I never mean any insult to you.

 

[agedhorse]

No worries, find an amp you like and stick with it. Simple solution.

 

[Al Kraft]

I've had an MP600 for about 12 years, went on many, many gigs with no problems at all. Had a BB750 for about 6 years with no problems, same with the Carbine M6 and the Walkabout. I've had a couple of guitar amp issues, but customer service was great.

I have an early Walkabout Scout 112 combo that has thousands of hours on it and has played hundreds of gigs - a scratchy master pot is the only problem ever, it even has the original tubes. My Walkabout head (which I bought much later) has been equally trouble free, albeit with less hours on it.

When I read about the issues with thermal shutdowns on the Carbines years back I decided to call Mesa and see if there was anything I should do even though the problems had not occurred with my heads. Even though I had no problems with my Carbines (M3, 6 and 9), Mesa recommended I send all three back for updating at no cost to me and they covered the return shipping - they asked me to pay for shipping to them since I actually hadn't experienced a failure.

As part of the rework required to address potential thermal issues, my M9 was returned in the 600 watt configuration (it was 900 watts when bought it). Some people found that objectionable. For me, I'm grateful that Mesa was willing to update my amps at their own cost to prevent me from a having a problem on stage - that says a lot about them as a company and how much they value their customers. All three heads are still working fine to this day and I've yet to detect the difference between the 600 and 900 Watt configuration in real world use. As always, YMMV!

 

[Luke the Fluke]

My best Walkabout find was a mislabelled 1950's Phillips ECC83 on eBay for £10 delivered along with a 50's Telefunken ECC81 (which I have no use for) Sounds great, cleaner bottom end and added a bit more harmonic content in the mids.

While I'm here, and if I go over a few thousand posts I'm sure I'll find it... is flat on the mid dial halfway or full on?

 

[adam montminy]

My best Walkabout find was a mislabelled 1950's Phillips ECC83 on eBay for £10 delivered along with a 50's Telefunken ECC81 (which I have no use for) Sounds great, cleaner bottom end and added a bit more harmonic content in the mids.

While I'm here, and if I go over a few thousand posts I'm sure I'll find it... is flat on the mid dial halfway or full on?

There was some confusion about the passive mid control that I think stemmed from a lot of people saying that they thought 10:00 on the mids sounded neutral or baseline but to get it truly flat on a graph, you have to turn it all the way up and then boost the parametric a bit around 300-400 too. Please correct me if that's wrong.

 

[adam montminy]

For me personally, my ears don't like it any higher than around 10:00 but I'm not concerned with where "flat" is and I usually use a cab with a mid driver so it gets pretty intense when you crank the mids on the WA. When I played it through my old Epifani PS210 though, I used a lot more mids because that cab just had so little to start with.

 

[jnewmark]

There was some confusion about the passive mid control that I think stemmed from a lot of people saying that they thought 10:00 on the mids sounded neutral or baseline but to get it truly flat on a graph, you have to turn it all the way up and then boost the parametric a bit around 300-400 too. Please correct me if that's wrong.

I never got it about that passive mid. I left it at 10 o'clock and just used the 3 band EQ. Of course, I never got the Fender tone stack either.

 

[agedhorse]

I never got it about that passive mid. I left it at 10 o'clock and just used the 3 band EQ. Of course, I never got the Fender tone stack either.

This is another nod towards the guitar legacy that this (and the D180, Bass 400's, Stratagy, Prodigy and others) bring to the table. Some folks can't live without it and some folks just don't care for it (then there's the haters, but that's another thread entirely). It is one aspect of what voices the amp and removing it would significantly alter both the tone and the feel versus level.

 

[the yeti]

d180. that was a helluva amp.

 

[agedhorse]

d180. that was a helluva amp.

To some players, absolutely, but to other players not so much.

For each amp that somebody is head over heals about, another player with different tastes has a different opinion.

If everybody was the same, designing new products would be a hell of a lot easier, that's for sure

 

[Al Kraft]

This is another nod towards the guitar legacy that this (and the D180, Bass 400's, Stratagy, Prodigy and others) bring to the table. Some folks can't live without it and some folks just don't care for it (then there's the haters, but that's another thread entirely). It is one aspect of what voices the amp and removing it would significantly alter both the tone and the feel versus level.

And for those who expected a "Walkabout/180/400/fill in the blank with a class D power section" in the D-800, I'm guessing this and a few other design characteristics are what keeps next generation stuff from being carbon copies in tone/voicing. No complaints mind you, I actually like everything the D-800 both brings to the party, as well as some baggage it left at home.

 

[agedhorse]

And for those who expected a "Walkabout/180/400/fill in the blank with a class D power section" in the D-800, I'm guessing this and a few other design characteristics are what keeps next generation stuff from being carbon copies in tone/voicing. No complaints mind you, I actually like everything the D-800 both brings to the party, as well as some baggage it left at home.

Good question...

The diversity of music has increased significantly from 40+ years ago (when the Bass 400 and it's "offspring" were developed) and with the wider musical styles come different tastes. Heck, many of the music styles of today weren't even thought of back then, so products evolved to better reflect and appeal to a wider and wider cross-section of the musical world (this specifically includes international world music). The Subway was intended to do this while at the same time staying true to the basic Mesa voicing while expanding it's appeal outside those legacy genres (which incidentally are some of the genres that I am most comfortable working with because that's what was still popular while is was working with the touring side of the business). The variable voice control brings a variety of these legacy voicings to the table, but like the products before them, nothing was ever static. All of the legacy models evolved as well, just like the music styles and players. For a simple example, Reggae brought with it an entirely different approach to the lowest octave, something that the SVT speakers were not as suited to reproducing as some of the larger ported cabinets (and even folded horns) were capable of.

Everything evolves, what I am trying to learn is HOW it's evolving, and which aspects need to remain and which aspects need to be updated to reflect modern player's needs. If somebody finds the WA the perfect amp for them, then they may wish to just get a WA rather than reinventing the wheel. But if folks who like the WA but aren't using it because it's not quite suited as their needs may have changed, I would like to know how their needs might now be different than when the WA suited them better. The WA still exists, it's not like we are talking about hen's teeth.