Mesa Boogie Walkabout Mega-thread Part 10

[agedhorse]

It sounds like you are saying that the WA is such a unique combination of pre amp/power platform/other factor, that it cannot be duplicated if any of that changes, a textbook, " one off ". Or is it a case of , you can have one tonal palette ( clean headroom ), but not the other ( harmonic breakup/od tonal palette ), if power is increased ? BTW, is the engineer who designed the WA still at Mesa ?

Yes, you have to choose the tradeoff point between clean headroom and break-up but it happens at more than one point simultaneously. It's the classic case of no single solution will work for both conditions (ie. an indeterminate solution)

Yes, the guy that did the WA is still here, but he is buried in a large, complicated new guitar amp project though I have discussed this with him. He pointed out that in the world of guitar amp design, operating sweet spots are common and actually a desirable goal. I don't think the same can be said of the bass amp world, certainly how it has evolved (and how player tastes have evolved along with it) since the release of the WA.

 

[TuneMan]

I think most of the people with a wish list of features for a new Walkabout are a little unrealistic. What they want would end up being an entirely new amp altogether, as it has been pointed out that the increased power is bound to change the sound, so it wouldn't really be a Walkabout anymore. With Class D taking over the world, the market for a Walkabout type amp is pretty small. It would be hard to justify the R&D and tooling up costs for a limited appeal amp, and Mesa's manufacturing facility isn't that big, so they have to make some hard decisions as to what stays in production. For an example, look at the list of discontinued Mesa guitar amps. I'm surprised the Walkabout is still in production, I thought they'd have a Subway combo coming out, but they told me that there are no plans for that (yeah....right...).

They should probably come up with a "tube pre-amp" effects pedal to use with the Subway and get the best of both worlds, a companion to the Subway D.I. pedal. After discovering this thread, I pulled my Walkabout out of the closet. I got it 9 or 10 years ago, mostly as a back up the the M-Pulse 600. It was mostly used for rehearsals. I used it on a few big gigs, using Powerhouse cabs in a 500 capacity club, and on a stage in a park with 1,000 people, both with major P.A. support. But if things got any louder than they were, it would have problems keeping up, especially if you want to keep the gain at 12 o'clock or below.

I've spent the last couple of weeks trying it with different Subway and Powerhouse cabs, as well as in the 4 ohm Scout cabinet. There's no doubt that it sounds warmer and sweeter than the Subway head, just like the Powerhouse and Scout cabs sound warmer and friendlier than the Subway cabs. But good EQ can compensate for a lot of things, and anyway some of that warmth gets masked or buried when playing in a loud situation. I'm actually thinking of selling my Walkabout. Most of the situations I'm in these days either as a tech or musician require more headroom. I used the Subway with the Scout cab and a PH112 at 2.7 ohms, and it sounds fantastic, but since I have 1x12's already, I doubt if I would take it on a gig.

 

[Al Kraft]

Sometimes you just get a combination that works in real life even better than it's supposed to on paper. It's interesting and somewhat telling to me that Mesa didn't come out with a more powerful Walkabout years ago, especially since they knew there was a market. My take-away is that they just hit a unique combination that doesn't scale easily if at all and/or they really aren't sure what the magic is or how to re-create it again (no insult or disrespect intended).

 

[sratas]

Anyway...the topology if the WA is attractive for a certain market...I think that maybe the WA magic is hard to maintain in a new improved project. But , it coukd be important to try to build the new WA with this in mind and aiming at a new and somewhat different level of good. Let's skip for a moment the numbers and the logic, where precisely the clipping starts, at how many watts that kind of distortion happens etc. Just build a new, full featured amp with a great tube clean And distorted tone. We are here craving for something we already have and that is maybe unreplicable. maybe, the new WA could be even more soulful and toneful, albeit in a different manner.

It takes a good bit of courage to build a unique beast, because math and enginnering could not suffice and it would be tweaked almost by ear from a certain point, but look at the WA. It's a classic, it ruled ages, and still does. Building a new classic with the only single goal of making a all-tube totally vintage sounding and behaving hybrid....

 

[kringle77]

Tuneman said a lot of true things.

 

[kringle77]

Sratas as too. I love the convenience of neo and class D but, I'm finding it finally less satisfying and have recently been gigging lead sleds and ceramic cabs. I can see a market for this, although not as big as the lightweight thing. But, I'll bet we will see many players heading back to the older stuff, or wanting newer versions of it. Like lead sled guys going back to tubes, sort of.

 

[adam montminy]

Just build a new, full featured amp with a great tube clean And distorted tone. We are here craving for something we already have and that is maybe unreplicable. maybe, the new WA could be even more soulful and toneful, albeit in a different manner.

Now here is a great idea! I like this line of thinking.

 

[drobinsn]

I think all of these have been said before, but my list of updates would be:
1. 2ohm stable
2. a little more clean power available
3. speakons
4. quieter cooling scheme
5. better feet
6. adjustable HPF
7. pre/post switch
8. low profile fuse holder
9. Mute switch

Lastly, I would be a little disappointed if it ended up being class D, unless of course Andy can make it feel like the original.
Also, I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the fuse holder. I had nothing but trouble with my WA until I had that fuse holder replaced with the low-profile type like they use on the newer Mesa heads. My amp kept shutting down randomly and I couldn't figure out why until I realized that the fuse holder would dislodge itself every time it got bumped, usually during transport in that soft bag. Maybe I had a bad one but it was a serious problem and when I took it to my tech, he said "That's a really really well-made amp, except for that stupid fuse holder." He also noted that the fuse holder is the only thing protecting those little switches on the back from damage so now I insert the head into the bag face-first. The amp has been flawless since I had it replaced.
By the way, I think this thread is amazing and I'm super impressed that Mesa's designer is here taking suggestions on how to improve an already amazing amp! This doesn't happen in other circles. I repair saxophones for a living and I can assure you that the major sax manufacturers are NOT engaging with players and looking for suggestions.[/QUO

 

[jnewmark]

Sometimes you just get a combination that works in real life even better than it's supposed to on paper. It's interesting and somewhat telling to me that Mesa didn't come out with a more powerful Walkabout years ago, especially since they knew there was a market. My take-away is that they just hit a unique combination that doesn't scale easily if at all and/or they really aren't sure what the magic is or how to re-create it again (no insult or disrespect intended).

Far be it from me to understand the science behind a design like the WA, but I'm wondering how GK does it in their RB and MB designs ? The RB line is famous for the GK " growl ", and is present in the RB 400, 700, and 1001. True, the dials need to be set differently from model to model, but , in the end, you get the famous " growl ". And, from what I've read, the MB800 is just a louder version of the MB500.

 

[tombowlus]

So, there is still no agreement...

There are those in the camp that want it exactly the same but "at a higher level". But, do you want the distortion of the WA at say the 300 watt level and continue to get dirtier as you get louder OR for it to be 1/2 as dirty ,cleaner) at the 300 watt level and the same amount of dirty at say the 600 watt level?

It seems as though there are 2 preferences here, which is the crux of the difference between the WA and the MPulse 600. There is a specific interaction that doesn't scale in a linear way, so I have to know which way might be preferable to most of you?

There are a lot of options, including taking the WA to an entirely new level, but it has to make sense to a variety of players.

I think that the two gain stages allow for a lot of control over the level of overdrive/distortion, and while I am sure that pushing the output section is part of the tonal mojo, I would be in the camp of wanting an output section which behaved in a similar fashion, relative to the Gain/Master settings, but which was twice as powerful. I specifically do not like the loose/mushy feeling that the WalkAbout gets when I am pushing it right up to the limits of the output section, but I like its tone from 1/3 volume all the way up to right before it gets mushy.

 

[tombowlus]

Yes, the guy that did the WA is still here, but he is buried in a large, complicated new guitar amp project though I have discussed this with him. He pointed out that in the world of guitar amp design, operating sweet spots are common and actually a desirable goal. I don't think the same can be said of the bass amp world, certainly how it has evolved (and how player tastes have evolved along with it) since the release of the WA.

The WalkAbout is one of Dan's designs, right? I definitely get what you are saying about the guitar amp world and their sweet spots, and you know what? The WalkAbout is probably the best example I can think of in terms of a "sweet spot" amp in the bass world. I know it's an engineering challenge to come up with a more powerful WalkAbout that feels/sounds the same as the original, but you are a great engineer, and paired up with Dan, Randall and the rest of the crew at the Home of Tone, I think you guys can do it!

Again, FWIW, the closest amp I have heard to the tone/feel of the WalkAbout, but with more power, is the Titan V-12, which is obviously a very different design (and it did take me a while to find settings which sounded like my WalkAbout).

 

[Al Kraft]

Far be it from me to understand the science behind a design like the WA, but I'm wondering how GK does it in their RB and MB designs ? The RB line is famous for the GK " growl ", and is present in the RB 400, 700, and 1001. True, the dials need to be set differently from model to model, but , in the end, you get the famous " growl ". And, from what I've read, the MB800 is just a louder version of the MB500.

I think some of the more hardcore GK purists would argue that the MB's have a pretty good emulation of the old GK Growl - which is an artifact of how the power amp section sounds when pushed into the rails - but that it's not actually the real thing due to the differences in amplifier topology/class between RB's and MB's. I'm a clean player and so the difference between the RB and MB is hardly noticeable to me.

 

[jnewmark]

I think some of the more hardcore GK purists would argue that the MB's have a pretty good emulation of the old GK Growl - which is an artifact of how the power amp section sounds when pushed into the rails - but that it's not actually the real thing due to the differences in amplifier topology/class between RB's and MB's. I'm a clean player and so the difference between the RB and MB is hardly noticeable to me.

I get it, but, point was, that, giving the models more power did not change the tone all that much; they were just louder versions of the model that came before it.

 

[kringle77]

Wouldn't the bb750 with added eq get us a lot of the way there? I hear that amp could use a bit more power as well though.

 

[tombowlus]

Wouldn't the bb750 with added eq get us a lot of the way there? I hear that amp could use a bit more power as well though.

Yes, it would. I believe it is pretty much a one-channel Titan V-12.

 

[Jeff Moote]

He pointed out that in the world of guitar amp design, operating sweet spots are common and actually a desirable goal. I don't think the same can be said of the bass amp world, certainly how it has evolved (and how player tastes have evolved along with it) since the release of the WA.

I don't think the operating sweet spot is a desirable goal, so much as the tone that goes with it. The fact that this is the case with so many guitar amps (and the consequent belief/preference by guitarists that they must run the amp there) leads to some of the most insufferable bandmates. It's not solely a bass phenomenon to have consistent tone at scale-able volume suitable to the venue/stage as a goal, as I'm sure you know. Guitarists and horn players have to be the worst for this, though at least the latter have a physical limitation on their instrument that it can't sound the same but quieter (to some extent).

 

[kringle77]

Jeff hit it right there.

 

[the yeti]

Far be it from me to understand the science behind a design like the WA, but I'm wondering how GK does it in their RB and MB designs ? The RB line is famous for the GK " growl ", and is present in the RB 400, 700, and 1001. True, the dials need to be set differently from model to model, but , in the end, you get the famous " growl ". And, from what I've read, the MB800 is just a louder version of the MB500.

funny, gk guys complain that the bigger amps (1001, 2001) don't have it (growl) like the smaller ones. my experience has born that out.

 

[kringle77]

Maybe I'll just get a bb750, add an ews bmc pedal and not worry about it. I'd like to see a big walkabout or something similar but new, but the bb750 with a little external eq may be good enough.

 

[agedhorse]

I don't think the operating sweet spot is a desirable goal, so much as the tone that goes with it. The fact that this is the case with so many guitar amps (and the consequent belief/preference by guitarists that they must run the amp there) leads to some of the most insufferable bandmates. It's not solely a bass phenomenon to have consistent tone at scale-able volume suitable to the venue/stage as a goal, as I'm sure you know. Guitarists and horn players have to be the worst for this, though at least the latter have a physical limitation on their instrument that it can't sound the same but quieter (to some extent).

The tone and the sweet spot are fairly inseparable, they go hand in hand because of the architecture. It shares a lot of similarities to a guitar amp in this respect.