Mesa Boogie Walkabout Mega-thread Part 10

[the yeti]

Speaking of the Walkabout DI, how do you guys approach setting the DI level knob for FOH when you have a sound engineer? I know the DI is post-master volume so I've always been a little confused about the interaction between the master and DI level. For one thing, if the DI is effected by the master, why is there even a separate knob for the DI? For example, if I want to turn up my stage volume in the middle of a show, is it best to simultaneously turn down the DI an equal amount to keep the FOH level the same?
Also, one comment I always get from engineers is something like "Wow that DI is really hot." Is this because they're setting their board for mic level and not line level? I never turn the DI level up past 9:00.

i don't know any of the answers, but i do know i keep the di level at 12:00. no complaints so far from anyone.

 

[sratas]

The DI level is to prevent sending a less than ideal signal to the mixer, too low or too high. If you change the master setting midset you may encounteer uncontrolled changes in the FOH, and the ratio between the master and DI level knobs is not easily understandable. So, for example, going from 8 to 9 o clock on the master may not be compensated by a similar reduction of the DI knob.
Better to set all the levels before performing and then leave them so.

Sometimes the post-master DI can be tricky, but this circuit allows for one of the best DI tones in the world. Worth the hassle for me.

 

[adam montminy]

and the ratio between the master and DI level knobs is not easily understandable.

Exactly, that's the confusing part for me. Sometimes you need to make volume adjustments on the fly and you'd rather not upset the house mix but who knows how much the house is being effected when you turn the master. It's probably not much of a problem out front but it's just something I've always wondered about with this amp.

 

[markmck79]

Exactly, that's the confusing part for me. Sometimes you need to make volume adjustments on the fly and you'd rather not upset the house mix but who knows how much the house is being effected when you turn the master. It's probably not much of a problem out front but it's just something I've always wondered about with this amp.

That's why I keep a volume pedal on my pedalboard and/or keep some headroom on my volume knob on my bass. Plus, I've found the tone is better on passive basses. As long as your guitarist isn't constantly upping his volume, which is a whole 'nother problem, then you shouldn't need to touch the master on your amp (and I haven't had to mid-gig in years).

 

[adam montminy]

That's why I keep a volume pedal on my pedalboard and/or keep some headroom on my volume knob on my bass. Plus, I've found the tone is better on passive basses. As long as your guitarist isn't constantly upping his volume, which is a whole 'nother problem, then you shouldn't need to touch the master on your amp (and I haven't had to mid-gig in years).

If you're changing your volume before the amp with a volume pedal, then everything is being effected, FOH included. How does that solve the issue of adjusting stage volume independent of the house?

 

[markmck79]

If you're changing your volume before the amp with a volume pedal, then everything is being effected, FOH included. How does that solve the issue of adjusting stage volume independent of the house?

You have a point, if you only play at a single level and don't play with any dynamics in your playing style. I use the vol knob and pedal sparingly (+/- 5-10%, at most) and only when I need to boost myself for a specific song or bass fill. But and most importantly, I also play with dynamics. Any competent FOH engineer should be able to compensate, if necessary, but really only need to adjust volume from a musical perspective. If you need to adjust volume because of another reason (say a guitarist who is constantly turning up) then that needs to be addressed in some way other that constantly turning up during a set.

I set master vol during soundcheck and very, very rarely adjust it otherwise. If you need to make a large volume swing with the master vol during a set then something didn't happen correctly during sound check.

 

[slofut]

I was thinking about maybe building myself a 2x12 cab for the walkabout head. On mesa's page you can purchase either the 12" scout drivers or the subway drivers. Could someone tell me how they compare tone wise? Any ts parameters or cab design suggestions from @agedhorse or anyone else? Is the details 2512II the same as either?

If you want strong, creamy, fundamental lows that shake your pantslegs, I find it hard to beat the scout 112's, two of them are perfect with the walkabout head. Remember they have a passive radiator coupled with the port, it's a different approach to speaker design than I'm familiar with but it damn sure works. If you roll off your low end like some guys do, then you have many choices. Greenboy? (not saying they don't have low end, just a good diy option).

 

[MarkA]

Re. the Walkabout D.I., yes, the master volume affects it, but having a D.I. level allows you to get things at least ballpark the same (as far as the signal you're sending to F.O.H.) at very different stage volumes.

When I had mine, I either left the D.I. knob at noon or turned it until I got the thumbs up from the tech. Levels varied, but I don't recall ever being told that it was too hot.

As far as whether having a constant level sent to the mixing board is more or less desirable than having the level vary with stage volume, I go back and forth. I know that conventional wisdom favors the former -- and I absolutely see why -- but most guitar cabs are mic-ed. When the guitarist turns up, the level of the guitar to the board goes up, too. Assuming that you started with a good balance and that the guitarist turned up a reasonable amount for a reasonable reason (sound changed as the club filled up, lineup changed at a jam, or whatever), having your volume change (assuming that you're being reasonable, too) might make sense. I've often played in situations where there isn't someone on the board consistently...

I get that, if you're on the board and people are going crazy with volume, it can be a pain. I like to feel the bass and feel the kick, but the levels some people play at are insane -- not only dangerous, but bad-sounding due to overloading the room. I've been the guy to tell everyone to turn down and listen to each other more than once, but I've kind of given up on it lately unless something is egregiously out of balance -- but I digress.

I don't usually fiddle with the knobs after the first few minutes, though, and then I tend to stay pretty close to the initial level I set, so having the FOH signal vary with master volume hasn't been a big deal -- even with amps that don't work that way, it will vary with gain.

Everything else being equal, I'd take a D.I. the level of which does not vary with master volume over one that does, but the sound is the thing. As long as the range of levels is reasonable, I'll take the variability in level over a compromised tone.

I seem to recall the Walkabout manual mentioning that Mesa would mod the D.I. so that it wasn't affected by the master volume, if you wished, but that, in their estimation, you would lose something in the bargain. I never played a Walkabout so modded -- I did play mine through a poweramp once -- can't remember if I fed the amp via the effects loop or the D.I. It sounded good, but wasn't quite the same. The feel was certainly different. Don't know if that would (if via the effects loop) shed any light on what the modded D.I. might sound like or not.

 

[adam montminy]

As far as whether having a constant level sent to the mixing board is more or less desirable than having the level vary with stage volume, I go back and forth. I know that conventional wisdom favors the former -- and I absolutely see why -- but most guitar cabs are mic-ed. When the guitarist turns up, the level of the guitar to the board goes up, too. Assuming that you started with a good balance and that the guitarist turned up a reasonable amount for a reasonable reason (sound changed as the club filled up, lineup changed at a jam, or whatever), having your volume change (assuming that you're being reasonable, too) might make sense. I've often played in situations where there isn't someone on the board consistently...

These are good points. I don't see the way it's set up as undesirable. It just requires a bit more careful sound-check. And I agree that if you're just making small adjustments mid-set, it's not a big deal at all and might even be desirable to have the changes going to the house.

 

[Pbassmanca]

Walkabout + JBL =

Is that a 15"?

 

[spiritbass]

Is that a 15"?

Yes, a JBL E-130. Was - I sold it last year. Amazing full-range sound from one of the most efficient speakers ever made.

 

[pfschim]

Rediscovered the Walkabout this weekend
I know this will be repetitive, but I wanted to post it anyway.
I have largely replaced my WA with a Demeter VTBP-M-800DJ for most of my steady gigs. My go-to cab is a Berg CN212.
But ... I had a pretty big gig this past Saturday, a CD release party for an original Alt-Rock/Americana-whatever band I am in.
The event was sponsored and there was a pretty hefty pro-sound PA in front of about 5-600 people.

So, given that there was a very good, fairly big PA (JBL something or other), with matching stage monitor set-up, and we were going to have our own sound tech leading the crew, I thought I would trot out the WA for the day. CIJ 51P reissue ==> small pedal board (EBS Multicomp & VT Deluxe) ==> Mesa Walkabout ==> Berg CN212 MIC'd + DI (nice) to FOH.

dang, what a nice sounding amp, made me smile all the way through a 2.5 hr set
the Demeter is not going anywhere because I also like it's preamp very much and it just gives me way more headroom than the WA can.
But, I am once again reminded of what a great amp the WA really is.

 

[kringle77]

I'm always surprised to see how much some wa owners boost the bass. I almost always cut mine down to about 10:30.

 

[pfschim]

I'm always surprised to see how much some wa owners boost the bass. I almost always cut mine down to about 10:30.

I run the Bass control right up at 12:00 (mids @ 10, treble @ 12:00). I set the low parametric EQ control at about -10db at 30hz to keep the flab down.

 

[sratas]

With a barefaced bb2 I cut the 30 hz let's say 3-6 db, bass knob noned. Treble and 1500-1700 hz slightly boosted, slight cut at 350 hz, and a mid setting that varies depending on bands, song or room. With some material the mid is at 10 -11 o'clock but lately I run the mid knob dimed. Gain at 1 o'clock, micro thumpinator on.

Best meaty jazz tone I ever had with la bella flats, big and growly, with a hint of grind when abused

 

[sunbeast]

I'm always surprised to see how much some wa owners boost the bass. I almost always cut mine down to about 10:30.

Yeah me too! The only time I've boosted the Bass is to get a super-saturated old-school fuzz-bass overdrive ala Curtis Mayfield "Get Down", but I would never do it under any sort of normal circumstances

 

[agedhorse]

The low end response to some players appears excessive, or in other words there is little need for the boost half of the rotation. This is one of the aspects that we considered when voicing the Subways.

That said, there are some players, primarily sealed cabinet players, who do not have as much of this issue. In fact, the WA low end response pairs better with sealed and over-damped/critically damped ported cabinets than the more common under-damped cabinet. The output stage behaves more like a tube amp in this respect and the damping factor is probably around 50, maybe lower.

 

[kringle77]

I totally agree with that. Just a damn sweet tone.

 

[pfschim]

The low end response to some players appears excessive, or in other words there is little need for the boost half of the rotation. This is one of the aspects that we considered when voicing the Subways.

That said, there are some players, primarily sealed cabinet players, who do not have as much of this issue. In fact, the WA low end response pairs better with sealed and over-damped/critically damped ported cabinets than the more common under-damped cabinet. The output stage behaves more like a tube amp in this respect and the damping factor is probably around 50, maybe lower.

Andy, I was wondering if you can talk about the slope (?) on the WA parametric EQ controls. I tend to use the lowest freq control (30hz -300hz on my WA version) with a pretty solid -10db cut .. and depending on the room/stage I'm on, I have just cut it the full -15db that the control allows.
I understand that this is NOT a HPF, just a Q point and a gain control. So, if I set the lowest para EQ control at 30hz and set the gain at -15db am I really just cutting at 30hz or is there a slope involved and with this setting I am cutting other frequencies above (and below?) 30hz as well.

 

[agedhorse]

Andy, I was wondering if you can talk about the slope (?) on the WA parametric EQ controls. I tend to use the lowest freq control (30hz -300hz on my WA version) with a pretty solid -10db cut .. and depending on the room/stage I'm on, I have just cut it the full -15db that the control allows.
I understand that this is NOT a HPF, just a Q point and a gain control. So, if I set the lowest para EQ control at 30hz and set the gain at -15db am I really just cutting at 30hz or is there a slope involved and with this setting I am cutting other frequencies above (and below?) 30hz as well.

Ok, with the frequency set that low, it will in fact act like a high pass filter because the below centerpoint is of no use to you and above center point will roll up to flat at (I believe, without calculating the Q) about 6dB/octave (pretty shallow). with the cut at -12dB, your -3dB point will be roughly 100Hz. IMO, the slope is pretty shallow, but it may work out just fine for what you are doing. The reason you need to use so much cut is because of the center point and the slope.

By comparison, the Subway HPF is 4th order (24dB/octave) so we can be more surgical and with 12dB down at 30Hz, you would be 3dB down at roughly 50Hz