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Mesa Boogie Walkabout Mega-thread Part 10
- Thread starter Chef
- Start date
I just googled “1/4" jack dummy” and there are many ordering options that popped up
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
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I've never heard of that happening and never experienced it with a WA or any amp I've played. From a pure electrical engineering standpoint the only thing I would expect is for hot electronics to have higher resistance and perhaps seem less powerful as the heat goes up - although that shouldn't even be tremendously noticeable on a properly designed amp operated within its design envelope IMO.
Hm. My WA is very new to me (as of this week), so I guess it could be my brain just getting used to it. I’ll try switching the tubes out this weekend- the previous owner said they may well be originals anyway. Thanks!
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,768
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- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
If you made any EQ plus-ups on your bass, on a pedal, or on the head itself, or simply got a little inspired by the tone and played more aggressively/confidently, that could account for the change too. While the tubes might be a little old, my oldest WA is playing fine with the original tubes and they probably have thousands of hours on them. Pre-amp tubes have a very long lifespan IME.
So I've had the WA for nearly a week now, and after 2 gigs, 2 rehearsals and a recording session I can say pretty confidently say that it's everything I hoped it would be. Last night's gig especially showed me how much mileage I can get out of that amp with a 4-ohm load; I worried when I picked it up that I'd need to break out my old 800RB for louder gigs, but the Walkabout can absolutely hold its own on a stack of SVT210AV cabs and delivers gobs of chewy, old school grit and give when you want it. I ended up being more conscious of my settings and I think my perceived volume increases over the past few days were in fact a result of my mid control creeping up. Anyways, it's a winner with a P Bass and I can't wait to get to know it with my active 5 as well; I'm looking forward to exploring that flavor!
Al Kraft
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- May 2, 2016
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That will absolutely do it! In a mix, mids matter a lot especially when it comes to hearing the bass more distinctly IME.
If you do decide to swap out the tubes, I’ve had good results with these two tube combinations:
JJ ECC803S Gold in V1 and a Mesa Chinese 1 in V2. (Mesa Chinese tubes are rare and not readily available)
Genelax Gold Lion ECC83/B759 in V1 and a JJ ECC803S Gold in V2.
Plenty of other tube combinations out there.
Depends on what you’re looking for in tone.
Why not just contact Mesa for new tubes. Mine are the original tubes and their Mesa.
this has probably been said already, but while you are trying to get the most out of the Walkabout with 4ohm loads and multiple drivers (and more efficient drivers), an HPF can also help remove meaningless low freq info from the signal chain and let the WA focus on reproducing meaningful freq's. Its not going to make it sound tons louder, but it will allow you to push it a bit harder before it hits the wall.
To be honest I haven’t really felt the need for an HPF yet, but then I haven’t run out of gas on the amp. I do use the low band of the Para EQ to cut below 40hz or so, though.
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
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- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
I did the same thing for years and will help some. However, a variable (or even fixed) HPF is a significant improvement IME and they're not very expensive. It's just the nature of the beast when you are looking at these two different kinds of filters (semi-parametric and a high or low pass).
That said, if you're happy with the tone and not running out of steam early, that's all that counts!
Well, I did.
To be honest, the Mesa tubes I’ve ordered did not produce a good tone.
I’m uncertain if you’re aware of this practice, but Mesa rebrands other manufactures’ tubes that meets their specs.
They don’t make the tubes they use in their amps.
Recently, Mesa discontinued manufacturing tube amps because they were having a difficult time sourcing quality power tubes that meet their specs. I don’t know if Mesa is experiencing the same issue with sourcing preamp tubes.
Out of the four Mesa 12ax7 tubes I currently have:
Two of them appear to be JJ ECC83S tubes.
One appears to be an Electro-Harmonix tube.
The fourth is the Chinese tube, possibly a Shuguang tube, which is also rebranded as Penta and Ruby tubes.
Out of the four tubes, only the Chinese tube sounds good to me.
And that’s when it is in the V2 driver socket with a quality tube in the V1 socket.
The remaining Mesa tubes are very warm and wooly, and are not really articulate in tone.
They also sounded compressed when compared to other brands of 12ax7 tubes.
The point I’m attempting to make is you don’t know what brand of tube you’re going to receive when buy a Mesa tube.
On a side note, I did a A/B comparison between my walkabout scout and a friend of mine’s walkabout scout. Both were in a stock configuration and eq the same. Both amps produced a different tone with the same instrument. There are some inconsistencies between these amps.
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Did anyone ever think they did manufacture their own?
All tubes today are manufactured either in Slovakia by J&J, various New Sensor brands that are manufactured in Russia, and a couple Chinese mfgrs like Sino and probably one or two more.
Last edited:
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
To dispel any mis-information about tubes, and it appears that there is plenty of mis-information to go around based on some recent posts (including sheltjo6's)...
1. We do not manufacture our own tubes, we never have, nor do we claim to.
2. There are a very small number of actual manufacturers of tube left in the world, each manufacturer distributes a substantial number of brands built in their plant. It's up to each distribution channel to screen their tubes for the specific parameters that are important for the circuit that the tube will be used in. It's almost certain that what I screen for is going to be quite different than what another designer might screen for. I'm looking for long term stability and reliability at a a particular area of the load line, operating point range and operating curves where there are clues about the internal construction and operation of the device. Choosing a tube for tone is done during the design phase, often there's disagreement but that's expected because tone has a distinctly personal aspect.
3. We discontinued the tube bass amps for a variety of reasons, but we have had a challenge getting consistent power tubes of the KT-88 type. Not a tone issue but a reliability issue. Some tube manufacturing lots were very good and some were not so good, and to further complicate the issue the defects would often show themselves after several hundred to as much as a thousand hours. This is far too long to screen for, as it would use up quite a bit of life if we screened every a tube for 1000 hours of operation.
4. There are no problems with preamp tubes, we have different tubes that may be used in different applications throughout an amp with parameters such as hum/noise floor, microphonics, plate impedance, mu, particular voltage considerations, etc. factoring into the selection. Even if a particular tube has "spectacular tone", if during the screening of say 100 tubes I see troubling data with regard to certain parameters (including tone variations) I may reject the tube outright because of instability in the manufacturing process that raises red flags that future problems are likely. I admit that we are a little bit different in that our warranty on tubes is much longer than any other manufacturer (that I am aware of), and if you get a defective tube we will certainly take care of you. This is only possible if reliability and consistency are very high.
5. Tone... this is very much a personal thing. One player's "warm and woolly" good is another player's "warm and woolly" bad. To a player who does not like this kind of tube might very much prefer a tube that another player claims is "rip your face off" bright or aggressive. I'm putting the descriptions in quotes because often the differences are in fact much smaller than the descriptions that are used. The tubes we use in the bass amps are what the design group as a whole preferred (providing the meet the necessary availability, stability and reliability metrics), and yes we have passed on good sounding tubes that were just too inconsistent for production and the screen-out rate would be prohibitively high. Fortunately, it's not that often.
6. Tubes that appear to be alike may not be as similar as you think. There are enhancements and differences that can (and often are) incorporated within a tube at the designer's request, but obviously these changes are only practical for companies that order enormous quantities of tubes (I can think of half a dozen companies that would fall into this category, all of them building guitar amps in addition to bass amps). Sometimes these differences can be accomplished at the manufacturer's production screening (often done for things like "gain" and noise), but sometimes the differences are built into the tube at the time of manufacture.
7. Screen-outs... what happens to those thousands of tubes that don't meet the (premium) specs that a larger manufacturer might require? Some get destroyed as they are so bad as to be practically unusable. Others might screen out of a specific position in a sensitive circuit but still meet all the necessary specs for another position in the circuit. Then there's the tubes that work, and meet the basic spec, barely meet the basic spec (the basic specs are quite wide) but don't meet the enhanced specs, or don't really quite meet spec but are still fully functional tubes, some of which may sound great but from a lot that was too inconsistent to use for production. Often these are purchased by smaller companies, companies building to a low price point, and to the many aftermarket tube re-branders and resellers. While there are some very good, conscientious ones, there are also a lot that are less honest than they are enthusiastic about their tubes. This is a market where emotions often run high, guys will go from heroes to villains as the pulse of the tube "snob" changes with the wind. Buyer beware doesn't even begin to describe much of this market.
8. How can you protect yourself when buying tubes? The first way is to have your tubes changed (and your amp tested at the same time) by a QUALIFIED service tech that has a solid reputation of being a straight shooter. If he warranties his work and replacement tubes, and you can listen to the amp after the work is done, you stand a good chance of getting what you paid for. You can also buy replacement tubes from amp manufacturing companies like Fender, Peavey, Marshall, and Mesa. Generally what you will be getting are tubes screened to the same standards as tubes used the new production, this means that you will be getting the same tubes that come in the amps that the manufacturer has to warranty. You can also buy KNOWN brand name tubes, JJ for example, but be sure you get them from an authorized JJ distributor so you don't end up with counterfeits.
9. Speaking of counterfeits, re-marks and knock-offs, yeah baby, this is more common than you might believe (especially in the vintage market), many tubes are not what they pretend to be and even the proclaimed experts are often fooled. This is one reason we (and other major manufacturers) buy direct of from directly traceable sources.
Hope this helps shed some light on the subject.
1. We do not manufacture our own tubes, we never have, nor do we claim to.
2. There are a very small number of actual manufacturers of tube left in the world, each manufacturer distributes a substantial number of brands built in their plant. It's up to each distribution channel to screen their tubes for the specific parameters that are important for the circuit that the tube will be used in. It's almost certain that what I screen for is going to be quite different than what another designer might screen for. I'm looking for long term stability and reliability at a a particular area of the load line, operating point range and operating curves where there are clues about the internal construction and operation of the device. Choosing a tube for tone is done during the design phase, often there's disagreement but that's expected because tone has a distinctly personal aspect.
3. We discontinued the tube bass amps for a variety of reasons, but we have had a challenge getting consistent power tubes of the KT-88 type. Not a tone issue but a reliability issue. Some tube manufacturing lots were very good and some were not so good, and to further complicate the issue the defects would often show themselves after several hundred to as much as a thousand hours. This is far too long to screen for, as it would use up quite a bit of life if we screened every a tube for 1000 hours of operation.
4. There are no problems with preamp tubes, we have different tubes that may be used in different applications throughout an amp with parameters such as hum/noise floor, microphonics, plate impedance, mu, particular voltage considerations, etc. factoring into the selection. Even if a particular tube has "spectacular tone", if during the screening of say 100 tubes I see troubling data with regard to certain parameters (including tone variations) I may reject the tube outright because of instability in the manufacturing process that raises red flags that future problems are likely. I admit that we are a little bit different in that our warranty on tubes is much longer than any other manufacturer (that I am aware of), and if you get a defective tube we will certainly take care of you. This is only possible if reliability and consistency are very high.
5. Tone... this is very much a personal thing. One player's "warm and woolly" good is another player's "warm and woolly" bad. To a player who does not like this kind of tube might very much prefer a tube that another player claims is "rip your face off" bright or aggressive. I'm putting the descriptions in quotes because often the differences are in fact much smaller than the descriptions that are used. The tubes we use in the bass amps are what the design group as a whole preferred (providing the meet the necessary availability, stability and reliability metrics), and yes we have passed on good sounding tubes that were just too inconsistent for production and the screen-out rate would be prohibitively high. Fortunately, it's not that often.
6. Tubes that appear to be alike may not be as similar as you think. There are enhancements and differences that can (and often are) incorporated within a tube at the designer's request, but obviously these changes are only practical for companies that order enormous quantities of tubes (I can think of half a dozen companies that would fall into this category, all of them building guitar amps in addition to bass amps). Sometimes these differences can be accomplished at the manufacturer's production screening (often done for things like "gain" and noise), but sometimes the differences are built into the tube at the time of manufacture.
7. Screen-outs... what happens to those thousands of tubes that don't meet the (premium) specs that a larger manufacturer might require? Some get destroyed as they are so bad as to be practically unusable. Others might screen out of a specific position in a sensitive circuit but still meet all the necessary specs for another position in the circuit. Then there's the tubes that work, and meet the basic spec, barely meet the basic spec (the basic specs are quite wide) but don't meet the enhanced specs, or don't really quite meet spec but are still fully functional tubes, some of which may sound great but from a lot that was too inconsistent to use for production. Often these are purchased by smaller companies, companies building to a low price point, and to the many aftermarket tube re-branders and resellers. While there are some very good, conscientious ones, there are also a lot that are less honest than they are enthusiastic about their tubes. This is a market where emotions often run high, guys will go from heroes to villains as the pulse of the tube "snob" changes with the wind. Buyer beware doesn't even begin to describe much of this market.
8. How can you protect yourself when buying tubes? The first way is to have your tubes changed (and your amp tested at the same time) by a QUALIFIED service tech that has a solid reputation of being a straight shooter. If he warranties his work and replacement tubes, and you can listen to the amp after the work is done, you stand a good chance of getting what you paid for. You can also buy replacement tubes from amp manufacturing companies like Fender, Peavey, Marshall, and Mesa. Generally what you will be getting are tubes screened to the same standards as tubes used the new production, this means that you will be getting the same tubes that come in the amps that the manufacturer has to warranty. You can also buy KNOWN brand name tubes, JJ for example, but be sure you get them from an authorized JJ distributor so you don't end up with counterfeits.
9. Speaking of counterfeits, re-marks and knock-offs, yeah baby, this is more common than you might believe (especially in the vintage market), many tubes are not what they pretend to be and even the proclaimed experts are often fooled. This is one reason we (and other major manufacturers) buy direct of from directly traceable sources.
Hope this helps shed some light on the subject.
I took my Walkabout out of semi-retirement today (it's a rainy Sunday and I had time on my hands). The WA has never failed to impress me when I have set it aside for some time (in this case about 2 months and about 12 gigs and many rehearsals) and focused on using another amp (the wonderful WD800).
I have also been working with a Noble DI preamp for the past few weeks. With the WD800, I preferred the sound of the Noble into the input of the amp. I tried the Noble with the Walkabout today too. Sounded great into the input (so, stacked EQ's), but the Noble also sounded massive thru the FX Return of the WA where all I was getting from the WA was the power amp. I wonder if the FX Return hits any part of the WA preamp ... hmmm ... calling @agedhorse. I'm guessing not as neither the Gain or the Master had any impact on the sound with the Noble going into the FX Return.
what an exceptional amp ... just can't say enough good things about it. I have come to bond with the WD800 with it's Walkabout flavored preamp/tone/character and greater available clean power/headroom, but once again, I am reminded why I will NEVER sell my Walkabout.
I have also been working with a Noble DI preamp for the past few weeks. With the WD800, I preferred the sound of the Noble into the input of the amp. I tried the Noble with the Walkabout today too. Sounded great into the input (so, stacked EQ's), but the Noble also sounded massive thru the FX Return of the WA where all I was getting from the WA was the power amp. I wonder if the FX Return hits any part of the WA preamp ... hmmm ... calling @agedhorse. I'm guessing not as neither the Gain or the Master had any impact on the sound with the Noble going into the FX Return.
what an exceptional amp ... just can't say enough good things about it. I have come to bond with the WD800 with it's Walkabout flavored preamp/tone/character and greater available clean power/headroom, but once again, I am reminded why I will NEVER sell my Walkabout.
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You won't need a HPF with the svt210av cabs because they don't go low and can't handle much power. Like most other sealed cabs the AVs tend to roll off low-lows nicely. I have a WA and two svt210av cabs and they sound great as-is for a low to medium volume situation. But for most of my gigs I need more volume because my rig has to carry the house (no bass in the PA). So I use a 15 with one or two AVs. That's when my Fdeck HPF comes in handy.
A couple svt210av cabs with the WA is a great combination but it doesn't get big. And I've tried. I tried 3, and then 4 of the little 'pegs with my WA and it got loud but was very mid-focused and was kind of "too much of a good thing". They excel at getting "that tone" but they don't have much booty. For most other cabs, particularly ported cabs, a HPF helps the WA stay solid at higher volumes.
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