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Mesa Boogie Walkabout Mega-thread part Four!
- Thread starter Chef
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I will. I had done a comparison between the Avatar TB153 and my LDS 15/6 using my Carbine and WA.....it never even occurred to me that my WA might have a bad tube, but I think that's the case. Gimme a week or 2......
if it really is failing, about any working tube would sound better.
you have a guitar center, l-n-m or something nearby?
guitar player friend with a spare?
you have a guitar center, l-n-m or something nearby?
guitar player friend with a spare?
Well, the only things I've rolled in the past haven't had anything to do with electronics, but I just bought 3 inexpensive tubes off the bay: a Sovtek LPS, a Tungsol gold and JJ/Tesla....might as well make a 'speriment out of it....I should have 'em all next week. I really hope it IS a bad tube. I don't remember it sounding this way at all.
I was surprised to see your amp listed for sale.
My WA does not overdrive with the gain at 12:00 with a stock P, J, or Stingray.
Sorry to say this, but I wasn't surprised that the Avatar (like the fEarful) would be happy with a 300 watt at 8 ohm amp.
Agree with Alen, that it is all about using effecient cabinets that use mulitple drivers.
Have proved to myself (the hard way) that all things being equal, cabinet impedence (from 8 to 4 ohms) does not make a huge difference. Especially confusing in that most amps make twice the power from say 8 to 4 ohms.
In the interim, can you borrow 2, used, known good 12AX7's?
Before you start buying tubes it would be good to know that this is the only problem
BTW, I think the WA has about the ame amount of heft as an SVT, meaning that the cabinets that require more power than the WA would also have the same issue with the mighty SVT.
Now back to the last round of tube rolling!
edit: you guys post alot faster than I, hence the redundant ideas
Yeah, I'm also not surprised at the TB153 not being the best match with the WA, even though it's 4 ohms.
The 15/6 I had was ok enough, but heck, even the M6 didn't feel like anything approaching enough power to make it sing. 1200 watts of bridged wt800b was the best choice I had at hand, and I didn't want to carry that much amp anymore. The M6 was lots lighter.
Then again, if the amp's not right, maybe the cab will work out.
I like the walkabout, in principle, more than I like the tb153; so, i know which one i'd ditch
The 15/6 I had was ok enough, but heck, even the M6 didn't feel like anything approaching enough power to make it sing. 1200 watts of bridged wt800b was the best choice I had at hand, and I didn't want to carry that much amp anymore. The M6 was lots lighter.
Then again, if the amp's not right, maybe the cab will work out.
I like the walkabout, in principle, more than I like the tb153; so, i know which one i'd ditch
Well, 1st of all, how the Walkabout truly pushes the TB153 will have to await the new tubes. Using my M6, the difference between the 4 and 8 Ohm cabs is significant-just enough that if I could get the same goose with the WA I could use the pair for most of my needs. Second, although I have not gigged it yet, the 153 is VERY impressive under the M6. I'll repeat, just for overemphasis, that I'm pretty sure I have a bad tube in the WA. My experience with the LDS 15/6 was that the M6 was plenty loud with its' 300 watts, even though it was obvious the cab would bloom with even more juice.
Yeah, I'm also not surprised at the TB153 not being the best match with the WA, even though it's 4 ohms.
The 15/6 I had was ok enough, but heck, even the M6 didn't feel like anything approaching enough power to make it sing. 1200 watts of bridged wt800b was the best choice I had at hand, and I didn't want to carry that much amp anymore. The M6 was lots lighter.
Then again, if the amp's not right, maybe the cab will work out.
I like the walkabout, in principle, more than I like the tb153; so, i know which one i'd ditch
Forgot to add this last night:
at least for me, when playing a JJ type bass, and favoring the bridge pickup, i can drive the WA to distraction muuuuch more easily...
at least for me, when playing a JJ type bass, and favoring the bridge pickup, i can drive the WA to distraction muuuuch more easily...
can anyone tell me which tube does what in a WA head? If i am facing my amp and looking down into it.
Tube on the left is the preamp tube; you can turn the master volume down and leve the amp on when tube rolling
Tube on the right is the driver tube; turn the amp off before removing this tube
Thought I'd close the loop on my little tube rolling adventure.
Bought a NOS GE JAN 12AX7; from 1967
Tried it in the preamp slot at both low and high volume; it is nice and reasonably stiff in performance (little less sag when pushed) but the tone was not as full range or deep
I'm sticking with the long plate Tele in the preamp slot and the long plate Amperex in the driver stage.
One other thought regarding these amps, their touch sensitivity, response, and, output power. Used the amp tonight at a medium loud rehearsal (rock and R&B) through a 2x15 cabinet loaded with old Altec's. All settings as before with the additon of the treble control at 2:00 (this cab is particularly dull).
I'm thinking that some of the charm with the WA is the 300 watt rating. Under the right settings, this amp can behave like an older Fender, in that by digging in the volume will increase slightly but the tone will change. In this case, it's not pure tube distortion with a stronger input signal (like you might find with say a Deluxe Reverb) but rather a distinct growl and an increase in sensitivity. The master was at 11:00 and there was defineately a bit more clean volume left although the speakers would not take it. What I'm trying to say is that if this amp was 1,000 watts and the power section was not being pushed into compression / sag, I wonder if it would feel or respond the same. Very inspiring to be able to articulate subtle tonal nuances with both left and right hand technique, as the amp is freaking alive (with the knobs pointing mostly straight up). While I've been able to achieve this at home, the tube swap make this much more dramatic and now particularly audible with 2 guitars, bass, drums, keys, and 3 vocals.
Whatever the reason, I'm really pleased with how this amp sounds and plays; had it not been for you guys I would never have bought one as they are rarely on display in our local stores. Thanks
Bought a NOS GE JAN 12AX7; from 1967
Tried it in the preamp slot at both low and high volume; it is nice and reasonably stiff in performance (little less sag when pushed) but the tone was not as full range or deep
I'm sticking with the long plate Tele in the preamp slot and the long plate Amperex in the driver stage.
One other thought regarding these amps, their touch sensitivity, response, and, output power. Used the amp tonight at a medium loud rehearsal (rock and R&B) through a 2x15 cabinet loaded with old Altec's. All settings as before with the additon of the treble control at 2:00 (this cab is particularly dull).
I'm thinking that some of the charm with the WA is the 300 watt rating. Under the right settings, this amp can behave like an older Fender, in that by digging in the volume will increase slightly but the tone will change. In this case, it's not pure tube distortion with a stronger input signal (like you might find with say a Deluxe Reverb) but rather a distinct growl and an increase in sensitivity. The master was at 11:00 and there was defineately a bit more clean volume left although the speakers would not take it. What I'm trying to say is that if this amp was 1,000 watts and the power section was not being pushed into compression / sag, I wonder if it would feel or respond the same. Very inspiring to be able to articulate subtle tonal nuances with both left and right hand technique, as the amp is freaking alive (with the knobs pointing mostly straight up). While I've been able to achieve this at home, the tube swap make this much more dramatic and now particularly audible with 2 guitars, bass, drums, keys, and 3 vocals.
Whatever the reason, I'm really pleased with how this amp sounds and plays; had it not been for you guys I would never have bought one as they are rarely on display in our local stores. Thanks
Whether a higher powered version would respond the same would be entirely in the engineering.
It's totally doable.
The whole "feel thing" is an interplay between input and saturating the preamp tube, and how hard the preamp section is then pushing the driver tube that feeds the mosfet power section.
Mesa understand very well how to manage this balance, as evidenced by the variety of flavors of amps they have that are technically more or less like this, but very different sounding.
The MPulse 600 is a fine example of "very much like the Walkabout, higher powered, and yet, not at all the same thing."
Which would not at all be what I'd want out of a Walkabout HP (High Powah!), and why I didn't keep the one I had.
There's magic in this wee little box.
If you haven't used the DI yet, do. It's killin'.
Believe it or not, I use it for DB all the time, including tomorrow night...
It's totally doable.
The whole "feel thing" is an interplay between input and saturating the preamp tube, and how hard the preamp section is then pushing the driver tube that feeds the mosfet power section.
Mesa understand very well how to manage this balance, as evidenced by the variety of flavors of amps they have that are technically more or less like this, but very different sounding.
The MPulse 600 is a fine example of "very much like the Walkabout, higher powered, and yet, not at all the same thing."
Which would not at all be what I'd want out of a Walkabout HP (High Powah!), and why I didn't keep the one I had.
There's magic in this wee little box.
If you haven't used the DI yet, do. It's killin'.
Believe it or not, I use it for DB all the time, including tomorrow night...
Hate to hit a flea with a hammer but just to be sure: I assume you are referring to rt and lt when looking at the faceplate. Is that right? It appears that my 1st tube rolling has snowballed and will also include a couple of old Telefunkens when I get around to it next week.
You could very well be right on this observation.
I'm proposing that (maybe) as the MOSFETS get close to maximum power, they "push back" and provide a richer harmonic content (which could also add some amount of distortion).
For example:
* SVT when set for a clean tone and pushed into an ineffecient cabinet = similar touch, harmonics, compression, mojo, etc.
* SVP-CL preamp through big a$$ power amp = not the same
Of course, the obvious flaws in this thinking is that the SVP-CL is not the exact same pre as the SVT and am also comparing tubes to SS output stages. However, for my money, the WA is very close to the SVT in tonal richness, depth of soundstage, and sensitivity.
Clearly Mesa understands tone and I assume the WA has been a good seller. Considering the number of M-Pulse series models they have produced, it is surprising that the marketing / engineering dept. didn't just make the WA more powerful without changing the tone. Could it be that they can't do so without a massive change to its' architecture?
Lastly, other than the GB Streamliner, are there any other new amps for 2011 that might approach what the WA is about but with more power?
On Thursday I was talking to Rich at Mesa about modding the DI so that its output level is fully independent of the Walkabout's master volume.
This conversation was born of a weird NYE gig that started me thinking that such a mod would be useful on a mostly-silent stage (where, say, everyone is wearing in-ears except a mulishly stubborn guitarist who wants "just a whisper" of bass--and the monitor engineer can't/won't give him a wedge with a custom mix).
Has anyone else here liberated the DI from the master volume? After considering it, I suspect that the mod would rob the DI tone.
After a couple hundred gigs with the WA, this is the only time I've been in a situation where I wanted to run the master just barely cracked open (as opposed to at normal stage volumes or else silent, w/ no speaker plugged in). If modding would hamper the DI tone just to gain flexibility in this odd circumstance, I'm inclined to leave the DI routing alone.
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