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Mesa M6 Carbine Mega-Thread Pt Deux
- Thread starter Chef
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...or... "BASS amps??? Wow, cool..."I'm waiting for the next Mesa tech guy to say 'tubes, what tubes?'
LOL
No way man.
That'd be the GC sales-dweeb, talking about that last 400+ they have in stock.
(apologies to all knowledgable GC salespeople)
That'd be the GC sales-dweeb, talking about that last 400+ they have in stock.
(apologies to all knowledgable GC salespeople)
I'm waiting for the next Mesa tech guy to say 'tubes, what tubes?'
Maybe even further apologies...
As it turns out...that guy with the M6 that had two tubes that the GC tech replaced (and still didn't fix it cause it was the cab.....)....turns out he mighta bought an MPulse 600, and not an M6. Still waiting to hear back on that, but it would explain why there was two tubes in there.
As it turns out...that guy with the M6 that had two tubes that the GC tech replaced (and still didn't fix it cause it was the cab.....)....turns out he mighta bought an MPulse 600, and not an M6. Still waiting to hear back on that, but it would explain why there was two tubes in there.
A friend called Mesa about the Titan and was told the same thing I was told. I'm done worrying about it. It is what it is.Wait a minute now. That cannot be a correct answer from Mesa. Chris told me that the Titan works differently and I know the Mpulse has a variable signal and the manual states to keep teh "wet" signal around 10%. So the don't all work the same. Maybe I am wrong on the BB750 but I am sure they are not all the same. Wierd man, that guy tells me absolutely the master doesn't affect the signal to the FX. Makes no sense. Wish we could get a straight answer that would satisfy me.
And you have your answer. There is absolutely no way for me to have botched my test-it's too simple to get wrong. Turn a knob, signal changes. Simple.
"Yea you guys are right, it is the Mpulse 600. Dont know why im sayin' it was the M6. Thanks for clearin' that up."
Maybe even further apologies...
As it turns out...that guy with the M6 that had two tubes that the GC tech replaced (and still didn't fix it cause it was the cab.....)....turns out he mighta bought an MPulse 600, and not an M6. Still waiting to hear back on that, but it would explain why there was two tubes in there.
Ok since I had no takers the first time on this here I go again beatin' this dead horse. This is from the FX loop section on the M6 manual:
From M6 Manual:
4) Adjust the processors Input/Output Level attenuator to achieve unity gain by toggling the LOOP switch in and out of BYPASS while making fine adjustments at the processor until you hear no level difference. Keep in mind you might have to adjust the M6 CARBINE OUTPUT control also if the processor indicating lights read unity gain (look good and are not clipping).
In this description above what is the carbine output? The master volume? Why do have you do this if later you adjust the master. Sorry in advance. I'm dense and I just don't get it.
From M6 Manual:
4) Adjust the processors Input/Output Level attenuator to achieve unity gain by toggling the LOOP switch in and out of BYPASS while making fine adjustments at the processor until you hear no level difference. Keep in mind you might have to adjust the M6 CARBINE OUTPUT control also if the processor indicating lights read unity gain (look good and are not clipping).
In this description above what is the carbine output? The master volume? Why do have you do this if later you adjust the master. Sorry in advance. I'm dense and I just don't get it.
Yeah, I'm assuming output means master, and I'm also assuming nobody answered because nobody has any idea why they did it this way... including me.
Out of curiosities sake, I decided to check this effects loop weirdness on my Carbine. The Send is indeed controlled by the Master volume. I'd never use line-level effects anyway, so it doesn't really bother me at all (though I agree that it makes the effects loop basically useless...). Both my D-180 and my 400+ were the same, but had dedicated "FX send" Volume Controls as well. The cool thing about it is that this function makes it possible to use the M6 preamp to drive my Mesa D-180s power amp......holy crap! If Mesa redesigned a new tube bass amp with the Carbine pre in front of the D-180s power section, I think I'd seriously never GAS for another amp again! The pre on the D-180 is very limited, and never seemed to push the power amp enough before the preamp tubes would start to get gritty (which could make the overdrive kinda buzzy without some creative EQing-could be that I need to try some different pre tubes in the D-180). With the Carbine pre, and using the Carbine Master to turn up the clean signal directly pushing the D-180s power tubes, I was able to get an amazing power tube grind I've never gotten from a straight all-tube bass head. The clarity of the Carbine just sings through a tube power amp- and the voicings suddenly became all the more useful to change the character of the drive sound (from mushy/gooey with the mid cut settings to SVT or 400+ style mid-grind with the mid boost settings). I can't wait til I have an opportunity to try this out at bigger volumes through my NV-610! I definitely see this as being extremely useful in a studio (getting the right overdrive from my 400+ in the studio for the last album I recorded required turning the amp up to volumes that threatened to blow apart the isolation booth...). One beauty of the D-180 is that crazy Master Volume control that lowers the voltage to the power tubes (I guess essentially "starving" them) to get power tube overdrive at lower volumes- I was really grinding with that setup tonight at apartment-friendly volumes!
Anyways- not as useful to most as much as an actual "effective" FX Loop, but pretty cool nonetheless....
Karl
Anyways- not as useful to most as much as an actual "effective" FX Loop, but pretty cool nonetheless....
Karl
Surprise! Yet another weird Mesa 'Master Volume.' Cool perhaps, but weird. Whatever they're smoking, I don't want any.
I just remembered: A couple of years ago the experienced and extremely qualified guitarist/leader of a band I'm a member of commented that he couldn't see himself using a Mesa guitar amp head because even though they sound excellent, "they're weird. The controls are weird. Marshall for me, thanks." I think I get it now.
sunbeast,
Ya that is what I was basically saying that it is really more of a slave out then a FX loop. And to the comment about whatever Mesa is smoking, I'll take some to see if it all becomes clear
Ya that is what I was basically saying that it is really more of a slave out then a FX loop. And to the comment about whatever Mesa is smoking, I'll take some to see if it all becomes clear
So let me get this straight, because the effects loop doesn't worked the way it should or is assumed to worked the M6 is a piece of crap that I should stay away from buying now? You guys have got me confused. All I want to know is the head worth the dough? Just sayin.
So let me get this straight, because the effects loop doesn't worked the way it should or is assumed to worked the M6 is a piece of crap that I should stay away from buying now? You guys have got me confused. All I want to know is the head worth the dough? Just sayin.
Well, I guess what it comes down to is if you don't use the effects loop, it's still a totally killer, amazing head. If you are a bassist who places very high importance on using an effects loop, then this might not be the amp for you, given the way it works.
This is typical of almost any piece of gear. If a particular feature (mute switch, dual speakons, switchable parallel/series effects loop, etc., etc.) that you find very important is not included on the amp's feature set, it might very well be a deal killer for some, even though the amp is otherwise totally killer.
Since I'm a 'plug it in, crank it up and play guy, none of this stuff matters to me at all. For others, some of these features are as important as the sound of the amp.
OK, There are going to be a couple of random thought post from me. This is a note from the Scout Manual regarding the DI:
NOTE: The DIRECT OUTPUT signal is derived from the driver stage and the MASTER control is active at this point, affecting the overall signal strength available from the DI LEVEL control. While this may, at times present an inconvenience under certain live performance applications, the added tonal benefi ts of this toneful stage at the DIRECT OUTPUT are well worth the occasional compromise. If you must have true independence between these two
controls - and cannot learn to work with the stock scheme, contact us directly and we can fax you a simple modification you can do that will remove the MASTER and its associated
stage from the DIRECT signal path. However, this will result in degradation of the sweet tube character and while you will gain independence of the controls...you will trade a substantial
measure of tone.
So point #1 is that with the Scout, Mesa thought the DI signal should be a post signal and tied to the Master volume, but there is a patch for removing it. Mesa, how 'bout a patch on that for the M6 and a patch to make the FX loop useable or at least a label to call it "slave".
See next post.
NOTE: The DIRECT OUTPUT signal is derived from the driver stage and the MASTER control is active at this point, affecting the overall signal strength available from the DI LEVEL control. While this may, at times present an inconvenience under certain live performance applications, the added tonal benefi ts of this toneful stage at the DIRECT OUTPUT are well worth the occasional compromise. If you must have true independence between these two
controls - and cannot learn to work with the stock scheme, contact us directly and we can fax you a simple modification you can do that will remove the MASTER and its associated
stage from the DIRECT signal path. However, this will result in degradation of the sweet tube character and while you will gain independence of the controls...you will trade a substantial
measure of tone.
So point #1 is that with the Scout, Mesa thought the DI signal should be a post signal and tied to the Master volume, but there is a patch for removing it. Mesa, how 'bout a patch on that for the M6 and a patch to make the FX loop useable or at least a label to call it "slave".
See next post.
Regarding the compressor and FX loop. On the Mesa Mpulse the compressor is wired inbetween the pre and amplifier just like one might want to do with a properly designed FX loop.
From Mpulse manual:
Next in the signal path is a new improved Compressor that features both THRESHOLD and RATIO controls. First included on our M-2000 Bass amplifier, this updated version allows for much greater fine-tuning of the dynamics. The THRESHOLD control is extremely sensitive to your attack and can be set for either subtle or dramatic compression effects. The RATIO control allows for anything from slight dynamic trimming all the way to a hard knee squash with a range from 1:1 to Infinity. The Compressor is also assignable On, Off or Footswitch giving you the choices of active or inactive all the time or triggering it remotely during a performance as an effect.
After the Compressor we jump over to the Output section that serves up the mighty SIMUL STATE power with its awesome 600 (or360) watts of rich, tube-driven MOSFET tone. This innovative circuit combines the best attributes ot tube and solid state technology to arrive at a magical blend that breathes and yet, tracks tight while producing massive power.
Again I am sorry. Not trying to be an a** on the issue but I don't get the thought process and calls to Mesa have left me wanting more. The FX loop circuitry in the M6 should really not be any different than the circuitry for Mpulse Compressor. I knew i should become an EE instead of a CE. Anybody have any questions about bridges
From Mpulse manual:
Next in the signal path is a new improved Compressor that features both THRESHOLD and RATIO controls. First included on our M-2000 Bass amplifier, this updated version allows for much greater fine-tuning of the dynamics. The THRESHOLD control is extremely sensitive to your attack and can be set for either subtle or dramatic compression effects. The RATIO control allows for anything from slight dynamic trimming all the way to a hard knee squash with a range from 1:1 to Infinity. The Compressor is also assignable On, Off or Footswitch giving you the choices of active or inactive all the time or triggering it remotely during a performance as an effect.
After the Compressor we jump over to the Output section that serves up the mighty SIMUL STATE power with its awesome 600 (or360) watts of rich, tube-driven MOSFET tone. This innovative circuit combines the best attributes ot tube and solid state technology to arrive at a magical blend that breathes and yet, tracks tight while producing massive power.
Again I am sorry. Not trying to be an a** on the issue but I don't get the thought process and calls to Mesa have left me wanting more. The FX loop circuitry in the M6 should really not be any different than the circuitry for Mpulse Compressor. I knew i should become an EE instead of a CE. Anybody have any questions about bridges
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