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Mesa M9 Carbine Power Reduced?

#61
dmusic148 said:
You're allowed to be miffed. I don't blame you. If you don't like it, send it back.
But in this case it's more like a turbo V6. If the car still goes 150MPH.....

That's not my point. It's this: Many years ago SWR came out with the SM900 and i bought one because I 'wanted big power.'
On a scope, it does indeed make 900 watts. But guess what? My old GK800RB seems louder. 300 watts, and it's louder. That's my point. Forget 'specs.'
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Yes, you are correct still a LOUD amp. the unit is 2ish years old so no sending it back. I do love its tone ect...just pissed that 2 years later I found it was not what I thought I bought

I had an experience the other way with ampeg where 1200 watts did not seem any louder than a super redhead 450 watt combo.
 
#62
B-string said:
I quoted you as I agree with your points. Case in point: Someone read the JBL white paper written to 'help' reduce high frequency horn failures (reduce warranty costs) as all speakers should have twice the clean power rating of the drivers from the amplifier. This did enough damage when it was in print only, FTP and now WWW made this much worse. This has been misquoted more than I could possibly count either as pure misunderstanding or outright deception. I'll see your $0.02 and raise you $0.02 :D We still probably didn't make a drop in the ocean but the effort is there anyway. :)
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Right on.
 
#63
All these talk prompted me to look up the serial # of my M9. Wow mine is an early one at #80. Never been serviced.

It never shut down on my gig, and I routinely use it to drive a 2x 15 rig at 4ohm for about a year; also numerous times with 3x 15 at 2.6ohm.

I did managed to have it shut down when testing out a 4 cabs rig at 2ohm all out, after about 3 minutes.
 
#64
My M9 has a serial number in the 1300's, which means it's one of the ones subject to the reduced driver sensitivity as explained by Mesa Boogie earlier in this thread. After speaking with a Mesa Boogie tech I decided to return it to the factory for the driver upgrade. The upgrade is free, but the shipping costs are on me. I will post an update here when the amp is returned
 
#65
This all makes MY purple starfish feel hurty, too. :bawl:

I love my M9, and use it for everything but flying or upright. Yet now I am sad—because I can't get a new one like my old one as a spare. I don't want a suitcase bomb, I want a suitcase nuke. :eyebrow:

Why—if mine is with OK with 10 mosfets, 2 fans, changed power transformer, fuse, and bigger heat sink—can't they make them all like that? :(
 
#66
babebambi said:
All these talk prompted me to look up the serial # of my M9. Wow mine is an early one at #80. Never been serviced.

It never shut down on my gig, and I routinely use it to drive a 2x 15 rig at 4ohm for about a year; also numerous times with 3x 15 at 2.6ohm.

I did managed to have it shut down when testing out a 4 cabs rig at 2ohm all out, after about 3 minutes.
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babebambi, what size rack case are you using, assuming its rack mount? 2U, or 4U? I also have an older one (not nearly as old as yours though! 11-something...) and its never shut down, but I never noticed the manual suggestion of leaving two rack spaces above open for ventilation. I'm using a 2u Gator case. I don't want to part with this thing as the tone and flexibility are amazing. I would rather send it in to Mesa for the power down grade then get rid of it.
 
#67
Well, this thread has certainly turned out to be an interesting read. Having played both the M6 & M9 at a local music store, I found myself preferring the musicality of the M6, but wanting the M9 due to the graphic EQ and compressor. I kind of felt all along that the best of both worlds would be the power section of the M6 with the preamp section of the M9. So from my perspective, this is a good outcome, and I'm actually more inclined to purchase a newer M9 than risk failure at a gig with an older, more powerful M9.

-Alan
 
#68
Just picked up an early one modded by Mesa in June. I called Mesa and was assured it "has all current specs and is good to go", but was not told whether that means 600 or 900 watts, 10 or 8 MOSFETS....I may call back and insist on an answer to those specific questions, but no matter, I know how good, thick and massive it sounds.
 
#71
teemuk said:
According to service literature even the 600W SSP module should have 12 MOSFETS.

Yep, I'm more assured that any technical information from mesa representatives simply cannot be trusted. :rollno:
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Hello teemuk,

I'm not sure what service literature you're referring to. In a technical sense, there is no "set" number of mosfets that should be used in a given design to achieve a given power output. Rather, the total number of mosfets used in a design is more about current (and current sharing), dissipation, and operating temperature.

The improvements in the series 2 amps incorporate a re-designed heat-sink twice the size used in series 1. Better cooling enables more current to be routed through each mosfet, along with a drop in rail voltage that allows for less dissipation across each mosfet. The result is a design that doesn't require 10 mosfets - because they can share the current. Each mosfet can handle 16A max current @ 25C degrees, and provide 250 watts @ 25C degrees. Under real-world operating conditions keeping the temperature low, say 70C degrees, there are an adequate number of mosfets in the design.

The end result is a better amplifier with solid reliability, with the tone and volume the M-series amps are known for. Thanks!
 
#72
MesaBoogie said:
Hello teemuk,

I'm not sure what service literature you're referring to. In a technical sense, there is no "set" number of mosfets that should be used in a given design to achieve a given power output. Rather, the total number of mosfets used in a design is more about current (and current sharing), dissipation, and operating temperature.

The improvements in the series 2 amps incorporate a re-designed heat-sink twice the size used in series 1. Better cooling enables more current to be routed through each mosfet, along with a drop in rail voltage that allows for less dissipation across each mosfet. The result is a design that doesn't require 10 mosfets - because they can share the current. Each mosfet can handle 16A max current @ 25C degrees, and provide 250 watts @ 25C degrees. Under real-world operating conditions keeping the temperature low, say 70C degrees, there are an adequate number of mosfets in the design.

The end result is a better amplifier with solid reliability, with the tone and volume the M-series amps are known for. Thanks!
Click to expand...

So they have a design spec @ 25C degrees and you run them "cold" at a higher 70C degrees????
 
#73
My current M9 was modded by Mesa this past summer, has the reduced MOSFETS and reduced power, and still slams like a Mack Truck pulling a 40 foot trailer filled with cement blocks. I actually prefer it this way because I can push the gain a little more, and the volume taper no longer goes from silent to "where are my earplugs" in 3 degrees of rotation.
I still will never push it to its' limit into my LDS 15/6. This rig is my definition of slam.
 
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#75
B-string said:
So they have a design spec @ 25C degrees and you run them "cold" at a higher 70C degrees????
Click to expand...

25C degrees is spec from the derating data sheets. The derating table relates to Temperature vs Dissipation. 70C degrees is a real-world operating temperature - which is a relatively low temperature when in use, and well inside the safe operating area. At 25C degrees EACH mosfet could supply 200 watts, but as temperature rises less current can be routed through each mosfet. 8 mosfets is more than enough for 600 watts @ 70C degrees operating temperature.

Thanks!
 
#76
I own an M9 and think its the best sounding amp I have ever owned. I will admit that I am biased toward amps with a high wattage rating (the M9 replaced a B1500 that blew up). I'm not sure I would have bought an amp with an advertised output of 600W. However, make no mistake, this amp is super loud, fast, and punchy. It's as loud as I'd ever need. I also read the user guide when I bought it so I knew to install it in a 4U rack giving the amp some room to breath. It does get warm. I played it for hours on end in a poorly ventilated rehearsal space all last summer. I've played outdoor gigs in the summer with no issues. I also think the M9's direct out sounds amazing. If they made a preamp based on this amp I would buy one for sure!
 
#77
The "fastness" of the M9 is what i really dig.. Some people say it has too much low end. But that is what you have Bass Control and a 9 band GEQ... For me it sounds great with a sub low that is "just there" and not EQ'd in.. dare i say like a $$$ Channel strip.. I bet the M9 would be an animal through a Greenboy cab at low or high volumes.
 
#79
svtb15 said:
The "fastness" of the M9 is what i really dig.. Some people say it has too much low end. But that is what you have Bass Control and a 9 band GEQ... For me it sounds great with a sub low that is "just there" and not EQ'd in.. dare i say like a $$$ Channel strip.. I bet the M9 would be an animal through a Greenboy cab at low or high volumes.
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I have one of the newer M9's and run it thru greenboy cabs...it's the best sounding amp I've heard in a long time. For my upright gigs, I just need to be careful with gain, so it doesn't start clipping, so for that I've been diming the master and using gain sparingly. Remarkable heft and impact, with that one quirk :)
 

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