Those Bergs love headroom and love power. Don't play at 'peel your face back volume' and you'll have a glorious sound!
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Mesa M9 mega thread
- Thread starter andrew
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Those Bergs love headroom and love power. Don't play at 'peel your face back volume' and you'll have a glorious sound!
I'll certainly give them a try. My only small concern was what I have read about the touchiness of the volume pot and that sometimes big amps are not best suited to running at lower volumes. This may not be the case here but I read somewhere that it's better to run a mid sized amp higher than a bigger amp lower (if that makes sense). Something to do with where they were engineered to work best. But, that could just be old crap thinking as well.
That said, I am also seriously considering adding a Berg HS410. Most folks seem to like this pairing. I expect that this combo would be really versatile across the board, no?
Chef
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...it's better to run a mid sized amp higher than a bigger amp lower = old crap thinking...
All the amp circuitry that I know of (possibly excluding all-tube amps) it is better for amps to be loafing along rather than working at the edge of or beyond their design operating parameters.
Here's the thought process (albiet an old one that I believe was set in my mind from the days of high end home audio component systems) that amps were designed to operate best in a certain range. Too little and they never get properly 'pushed' and too hard and they distort. It's in that middle area that is best by design. The best analogy I can make is to an engines power band where, depending on the application, they make there most useful power in the ranges they are designed for. Certainly we all know it is bad to ask too much from a small amp because the results are immediately obvious but I have been unsure of if (hypothetically)you get equal results from running an M9 at a master volume 2 vs something like the M6 at 5. But the responses indicate that this is simply wrong thinking and I'll reboot the old brain here to keep it straight. Thanks all.
Not at the upper edge, simply in the normal middle range of a lesser powered amp (well below any point of undesirable or catastrophic results) vs. the very low end of a higher powered amp.
Well, if the tone of the response I "+1'd" seems negative to you, just know I don't echo that aspect.
But it's true... that's pretty antiquated thinking UNLESS maybe you're talking about a tube head? With modern solid state designs, you get more dynamic range if you stay well within the amp's capabilities, and the more headroom you have, the better. Just becomes a matter of money, really. I mean, if you only need 100W for your gig, you're kinda' wasting money on a mega power block head. But I've never heard of anyone complaining about tonal or dynamic impact of playing well under the headroom limit of a solid state amp, at least.
Tube heads are the only amps I can think of where they really might have such a significant "sweet spot" like you sorta' commented on.
No, no, no. Please. I in no way took as negative but rather as a very positive reinforcement of the previous comment. That is what I was hoping to hear and was sincerely happy to have the correct info. All good and sometimes this can be a very one dimensional medium to convey the emotion or intent of commentary. All I know is that I bought me an M9 and glad that it will serve me at all volume levels. Always happy to be educated. Thanks.
Cool. Just makin' sure. It's a web forum, sometimes things can go badly by accident.
Cool. Just makin' sure. It's a web forum, sometimes things can go badly by accident.
No kidding! and sometimes, things go badly 'on purpose.' But not from guys like Vic. Tons of respect here. It's all good conversation that helps us learn things we might not otherwise know.
For instance; I used to think that it was better to crank the Master Volume up pretty high to make sure all power was available on tap for headroom. Seemed logical to me at the time. But that is not the case at all. ...and I learned that here on TB. I learned to use the input gain volume to get a nice strong input signal without noise, then use Master Vol for overall maximum loudness.
good to hear its ok to run the M9 at master volume 2 all the time... I still haven't taken it out of my apartment, and anything more than 2 shakes the entire room... anything over 5 shakes the entire upper level, and anything beyond 8 shakes the entire building! and that's at 'only' 450w through an 8ohm 2x10. which is super cool when no-one else is home. can't wait to add another 2x10 someday...
and i am one of those guys that bought an amp WAAAAAAAAAY more powerful than I need. but hey, i have the best amp for my musical taste and style, so i'm smiling!
and i am one of those guys that bought an amp WAAAAAAAAAY more powerful than I need. but hey, i have the best amp for my musical taste and style, so i'm smiling!
good to hear its ok to run the M9 at master volume 2 all the time... I still haven't taken it out of my apartment, and anything more than 2 shakes the entire room... anything over 5 shakes the entire upper level, and anything beyond 8 shakes the entire building! and that's at 'only' 450w through an 8ohm 2x10. which is super cool when no-one else is home. can't wait to add another 2x10 someday...
and i am one of those guys that bought an amp WAAAAAAAAAY more powerful than I need. but hey, i have the best amp for my musical taste and style, so i'm smiling!
Heck, I play my M6 Carbine at Master Vol "2" on the dial! These Mesa Carbines have tons of slam/headroom.
Can someone explain the concept of headroom to me in simple terms? I think I know but not 100% sure. How would teh headroom on the Mesa products be different or measured from some options like a Markbass Mk3 or some other Class D micro amp? How does that ultimately influence or make itelf noticed in the sound? Thanks
Oversimplified understanding:
Headroom is when you play a note (Low notes are especially power hungry) and the the amp has more than enough power to support the note with appropriate transient response staying clean without sagging or distorting.
When an amp does begin to push the limits of its normal operating parameters, depending on the amp's design, it can begin to compress the lower frequency signals, it can start distorting, or it can just lose a bit of the naturally dynamic nature of the lower frequency reproduction.
Musical signals are very dynamic in nature and as GRoberts said, the lower frequency notes are very demanding on electronic circuits as far as power demands and handling transient bursts of sound.
Headroom allows the amp to have reserve power to handle the bursty spikes of low frequency information and still remain inside its optimal operating parameters.
The flip-side is if you get carried away with EQ or do something like hit a string against a polepiece on your bass guitar's pickup (been there/done that), your amp is going to send potentially dangerous levels to your cab(s).
Normally, if you listen to your cab, you can tell when it is being pushed too hard and you can adjust the levels to compensate.
I do love headroom, but you have to be careful how you use it.
Thank you both for the explanation. I get that concept and assume that in practice it should allow for a wider dynamic range?
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