Mesa Strategy and Prodigy discontinued. Also PH cabs.

[BogeyBass]

Actually, my "huh" was in regards to your really hard to follow rambling post. I'm still having problems following a long to your posts.

Basically there is plenty off buyers for large cabs and tube amps.

Just a majority of those buyers are not interested in mesa cabs or amps.

They could hit the market just fine. If they did a facelift and made different configurations available.

It's fine line to keep up with trends genres labels and artist that actually buy the stuff.

Boogie ain't hitting it. And using bad tubes as excuse is plain silly.

 

[BogeyBass]

Interesting that Behringer/Bugera took the approach of lower plate voltages on their tube amps to deal with the "modern crappy tubes" crisis. But that also makes their amps a bit less "edgy" so not terribly popular. Not to mention the abysmal failure of their "Infiniums" due to crappy ribbon cable connections in the auto-bias circuit . OTOH I really should dig out my 1960 to get that Jack Bruce thing goin' in my latest band .

Crappy tubes ain't the problem. Smacking plates and screens at maximum voltage with cheap factory tubes is.

Plenty of manufactures figured out how stay within tolerance. Especially with mismatched loads and high distortion found in instrument amps. you don't hot rod tubes and expect long life by having wattage drag races.

You make cool looking easy to service tube amps. 100 200 and 300 watts the end. All achieved with so called " crappy tubes"

 

[BrentSimons]

Just going to jump in here to say that both the Strategy and Prodigy are really hot rodded amps and it's becoming more and more difficult to get consistent quality production KT-88 tubes that can handle the high voltages and currents that are necessary under the wide variety of real world conditions that these amps see in the wild (and getting more and more difficult every day it seems) . They are an expensive tube (especially a set of 8), and when reliability suffers the costs of replacements can get pretty high awfully quickly. Since our warranty is both long and liberal (as many of you are aware of, and some of you have taken advantage of), it has just become impractical to continue with such a costly, almost custom build type amp. There are some still available throughout the dealer network, as well as showing up on the TB classifieds. The warranty is transferable, so if you want one just keep your eyes open.

As far as the Powerhouse cabinets, the days of players seeking out 100+ pound cabinets is coming to a close. Absolutely nothing wrong with the speaker, just that tastes have changed away from this to cabinets like the Subway and similar lighter weight more compact cabinets. There are plenty of new and used PH cabinets out there so there's certainly no shortage plus we continue to stock all the repair parts and warranty service should it be necessary.

Don't worry though, I am always working on new designs and listening closely to what Talkbass players are looking for, as you all seem to be ahead of the curve more than anywhere else. Now's your chance to speak up!

A Bass 400+ that weighs 10 lbs?

 

[Wasnex]

Basically there is plenty off buyers for large cabs and tube amps.

Just a majority of those buyers are not interested in mesa cabs or amps.

They could hit the market just fine. If they did a facelift and made different configurations available.

It's fine line to keep up with trends genres labels and artist that actually buy the stuff.

Boogie ain't hitting it. And using bad tubes as excuse is plain silly.

Which tube amps are hitting the mark and running away with the market?

I think part of the issue is many of Mesa's older bass amp and speaker designs have seemingly been optimized for touring pros. There is not a huge market for touring quality gear so I would think the profit margin is pretty thin on these products even with their somewhat premium price.

Under these conditions, it doesn't take much of a change in reliability to push a marginally profitable product into the red due to the cost of warranty work. This is especially true if the amps have an aggressive design that runs the tubes hard, which I think is what @agedhorse has indicated.

Also consider Mesa buys, grades, and sells tubes under their marquis. Profits and losses associated with the tubes has to be factored into the equation as well. The company may be locked in with certain tube suppliers, so it may not be possible for them to solve the problem by simply changing tube manufacturers.

The KT88s shown on Mesa's site look a lot like Shuguang KT88-98 to me. From everything I have read, these are supposed to be some of the more reliable tubes in amps running high plate voltages.

I have read that dealing with the Chinese can be very tricky. They will dump known faulty products in with good products if they can get away with it. So if Mesa is experiencing a decrease in reliability, it may not be a manufacturing problem at all.

Without knowing the intricacies of the culture, it's difficult to know how to hold them accountable and get a consistently good product without creating offense. Random batch testing, where an entire shipment is rejected upon finding a bad batch, is one strategy I have seen suggested in management studies. But this sort of practice has to be negotiated before contracts are signed.

 

[armyadarkness]

Just going to jump in here to say that both the Strategy and Prodigy are really hot rodded amps and it's becoming more and more difficult to get consistent quality production KT-88 tubes that can handle the high voltages and currents that are necessary under the wide variety of real world conditions that these amps see in the wild (and getting more and more difficult every day it seems) . They are an expensive tube (especially a set of 8), and when reliability suffers the costs of replacements can get pretty high awfully quickly. Since our warranty is both long and liberal (as many of you are aware of, and some of you have taken advantage of), it has just become impractical to continue with such a costly, almost custom build type amp. There are some still available throughout the dealer network, as well as showing up on the TB classifieds. The warranty is transferable, so if you want one just keep your eyes open.

As far as the Powerhouse cabinets, the days of players seeking out 100+ pound cabinets is coming to a close. Absolutely nothing wrong with the speaker, just that tastes have changed away from this to cabinets like the Subway and similar lighter weight more compact cabinets. There are plenty of new and used PH cabinets out there so there's certainly no shortage plus we continue to stock all the repair parts and warranty service should it be necessary.

Don't worry though, I am always working on new designs and listening closely to what Talkbass players are looking for, as you all seem to be ahead of the curve more than anywhere else. Now's your chance to speak up!

Well I'm glad that I got mine when I did, and I'll be looking to snatch up any PH cabs out there!

 

[armyadarkness]

Man glad I got the Mesa Prodigy when I did. Hopefully finding tubes won't be too hard in the future.

I was considering getting a PH212 or PH412. May need to speed that up if they are going to become scarce.

Get the PH412!!!!

 

[McFarlin]

Lol it's not my money. I love the ignorance game. It ain't the tubes. Even back in the 90s it was the " tubes fault" then again that was the " good old days" when SED was in full production. The supposed only factory making " good tubes"

My Chinese loaded kt88 Marshall and kt66 Marshall doing fine.

Let's all start rumours that " tube are bad" and nobody needs big cabs lol. So we can sell are overpriced class D's and scare the market from buying real tubes.

What's the best tinfoil hat for metal?

 

[armyadarkness]

They will have to pry my 8:88 ( fed into 2x Berg NV115’s ) out of my cold dead hands.

Unfortunately, that does speak to my playing lately...

What size pry bar will I need? lol

 

[xnewyorka]

If we are kicking around ideas, I'll mention that I shy away from amps that don't have bias pots. Bonus points if you can access the pot without removing the chassis. I'm not skilled enough to retro fit a pot.

Did you see the bias adjustment process on the Fuchs ODS II guitar head? Pretty ingenious!
Jump to 1:34 of this vid:

 

[agedhorse]

It's not that all tubes are bad, it's that some grade out bad. The bigger challenge is tubes that grade good and work fine for a period of times (weeks to a year or so) then fail. One or 2 tubes failing out of a set of 8 is tough to identify in advance when they give no measurable indication. Something appears to stimulate catastrophic drift of parameters.

Of course we go out of our way to take care of such failures, but the days of producing hot rodded tube bass amps (with their unique performance) may no longer be practical. This doesn't mean that other approaches aren't possible though.

 

[HamOnTheCob]

Just going to jump in here to say that both the Strategy and Prodigy are really hot rodded amps and it's becoming more and more difficult to get consistent quality production KT-88 tubes that can handle the high voltages and currents that are necessary under the wide variety of real world conditions that these amps see in the wild (and getting more and more difficult every day it seems) . They are an expensive tube (especially a set of 8), and when reliability suffers the costs of replacements can get pretty high awfully quickly. Since our warranty is both long and liberal (as many of you are aware of, and some of you have taken advantage of), it has just become impractical to continue with such a costly, almost custom build type amp. There are some still available throughout the dealer network, as well as showing up on the TB classifieds. The warranty is transferable, so if you want one just keep your eyes open.

As far as the Powerhouse cabinets, the days of players seeking out 100+ pound cabinets is coming to a close. Absolutely nothing wrong with the speaker, just that tastes have changed away from this to cabinets like the Subway and similar lighter weight more compact cabinets. There are plenty of new and used PH cabinets out there so there's certainly no shortage plus we continue to stock all the repair parts and warranty service should it be necessary.

Don't worry though, I am always working on new designs and listening closely to what Talkbass players are looking for, as you all seem to be ahead of the curve more than anywhere else. Now's your chance to speak up!

The Prodigy I got in 2015 never wowed me, and one day after owning it several months, I was looking at it from the back and I noticed one tube wasn't glowing. Hmm... I got a replacement from Mesa and once I installed it, it was like a new amp. From what I can tell, the whole time I had it (got it new from Mesa directly), it was only partially functional because of that tube. Even after the tubes were all working though, I never really fell in love with the tonal characteristics of the amp, and the power was still underwhelming. I sold it and got a D800 and WOW what an amp. It was everything I had hoped the Prodigy would be, with tone for days. I'm not shocked the Strategy and Prodigy are going away, as they're heavy, expensive, and really don't hold a candle to the Subway series. Mesa really knocked that line out of the park, and I think the D800 and D800+ approximate the "tube tone" everyone always talks about better than any other non-tube amp I've heard. For any and all contribution you had to the Subway amps agedhorse, THANK YOU!

EDIT: Just wanted to add that I got a *pair* of replacements from Mesa and installed them both, just to be clear. LoL

 

[bdplaid]

Just going to jump in here to say that both the Strategy and Prodigy are really hot rodded amps and it's becoming more and more difficult to get consistent quality production KT-88 tubes that can handle the high voltages and currents that are necessary under the wide variety of real world conditions that these amps see in the wild (and getting more and more difficult every day it seems) . They are an expensive tube (especially a set of 8), and when reliability suffers the costs of replacements can get pretty high awfully quickly. Since our warranty is both long and liberal (as many of you are aware of, and some of you have taken advantage of), it has just become impractical to continue with such a costly, almost custom build type amp. There are some still available throughout the dealer network, as well as showing up on the TB classifieds. The warranty is transferable, so if you want one just keep your eyes open.

As far as the Powerhouse cabinets, the days of players seeking out 100+ pound cabinets is coming to a close. Absolutely nothing wrong with the speaker, just that tastes have changed away from this to cabinets like the Subway and similar lighter weight more compact cabinets. There are plenty of new and used PH cabinets out there so there's certainly no shortage plus we continue to stock all the repair parts and warranty service should it be necessary.

Don't worry though, I am always working on new designs and listening closely to what Talkbass players are looking for, as you all seem to be ahead of the curve more than anywhere else. Now's your chance to speak up!

This looks like a great time to put in a suggestion for a 212 cabinet that's even better than the barefaced!

 

[sheltjo6]

Just going to jump in here to say that both the Strategy and Prodigy are really hot rodded amps and it's becoming more and more difficult to get consistent quality production KT-88 tubes that can handle the high voltages and currents that are necessary under the wide variety of real world conditions that these amps see in the wild (and getting more and more difficult every day it seems) . They are an expensive tube (especially a set of 8), and when reliability suffers the costs of replacements can get pretty high awfully quickly. Since our warranty is both long and liberal (as many of you are aware of, and some of you have taken advantage of), it has just become impractical to continue with such a costly, almost custom build type amp. There are some still available throughout the dealer network, as well as showing up on the TB classifieds. The warranty is transferable, so if you want one just keep your eyes open.

As far as the Powerhouse cabinets, the days of players seeking out 100+ pound cabinets is coming to a close. Absolutely nothing wrong with the speaker, just that tastes have changed away from this to cabinets like the Subway and similar lighter weight more compact cabinets. There are plenty of new and used PH cabinets out there so there's certainly no shortage plus we continue to stock all the repair parts and warranty service should it be necessary.

Don't worry though, I am always working on new designs and listening closely to what Talkbass players are looking for, as you all seem to be ahead of the curve more than anywhere else. Now's your chance to speak up!

Thank Andy!!! Always Appreciate the insight and wisdom you share with the TB community. I guess I better try out a PH115 standard and traditional before they are no longer available. My ultimate Mesa 115 cab comparison would also include the Subway 115. Would love to hear how all three cabs sound compared to my WA scout 15.

 

[bikeplate]

Had a prodigy. Liked my D800 more

 

[Pbassmanca]

Just going to jump in here to say that both the Strategy and Prodigy are really hot rodded amps and it's becoming more and more difficult to get consistent quality production KT-88 tubes that can handle the high voltages and currents that are necessary under the wide variety of real world conditions that these amps see in the wild (and getting more and more difficult every day it seems) . They are an expensive tube (especially a set of 8), and when reliability suffers the costs of replacements can get pretty high awfully quickly. Since our warranty is both long and liberal (as many of you are aware of, and some of you have taken advantage of), it has just become impractical to continue with such a costly, almost custom build type amp. There are some still available throughout the dealer network, as well as showing up on the TB classifieds. The warranty is transferable, so if you want one just keep your eyes open.

As far as the Powerhouse cabinets, the days of players seeking out 100+ pound cabinets is coming to a close. Absolutely nothing wrong with the speaker, just that tastes have changed away from this to cabinets like the Subway and similar lighter weight more compact cabinets. There are plenty of new and used PH cabinets out there so there's certainly no shortage plus we continue to stock all the repair parts and warranty service should it be necessary.

Don't worry though, I am always working on new designs and listening closely to what Talkbass players are looking for, as you all seem to be ahead of the curve more than anywhere else. Now's your chance to speak up!

I hereby charge the Mesa Boogie and company with making THE BEST lightweight 410 on the market. It should be easily schlepable, be built like a tank, have thick meaty lows, excellent dispersion and audibility of the midrange/treble frequencies, and generally have a rich, clear, room filling sound. It should also handle 800 watts, come with a 4 ohm option, and have inset non-moving handles. By decree of a guy that loves Mesa gear....

 

[Hand slap]

Just going to jump in here to say that both the Strategy and Prodigy are really hot rodded amps and it's becoming more and more difficult to get consistent quality production KT-88 tubes that can handle the high voltages and currents that are necessary under the wide variety of real world conditions that these amps see in the wild (and getting more and more difficult every day it seems) . They are an expensive tube (especially a set of 8), and when reliability suffers the costs of replacements can get pretty high awfully quickly. Since our warranty is both long and liberal (as many of you are aware of, and some of you have taken advantage of), it has just become impractical to continue with such a costly, almost custom build type amp. There are some still available throughout the dealer network, as well as showing up on the TB classifieds. The warranty is transferable, so if you want one just keep your eyes open.

As far as the Powerhouse cabinets, the days of players seeking out 100+ pound cabinets is coming to a close. Absolutely nothing wrong with the speaker, just that tastes have changed away from this to cabinets like the Subway and similar lighter weight more compact cabinets. There are plenty of new and used PH cabinets out there so there's certainly no shortage plus we continue to stock all the repair parts and warranty service should it be necessary.

Don't worry though, I am always working on new designs and listening closely to what Talkbass players are looking for, as you all seem to be ahead of the curve more than anywhere else. Now's your chance to speak up!

Love Mesa, and all tube amps, but I have always been hesitant to own an all tube

Just going to jump in here to say that both the Strategy and Prodigy are really hot rodded amps and it's becoming more and more difficult to get consistent quality production KT-88 tubes that can handle the high voltages and currents that are necessary under the wide variety of real world conditions that these amps see in the wild (and getting more and more difficult every day it seems) . They are an expensive tube (especially a set of 8), and when reliability suffers the costs of replacements can get pretty high awfully quickly. Since our warranty is both long and liberal (as many of you are aware of, and some of you have taken advantage of), it has just become impractical to continue with such a costly, almost custom build type amp. There are some still available throughout the dealer network, as well as showing up on the TB classifieds. The warranty is transferable, so if you want one just keep your eyes open.

As far as the Powerhouse cabinets, the days of players seeking out 100+ pound cabinets is coming to a close. Absolutely nothing wrong with the speaker, just that tastes have changed away from this to cabinets like the Subway and similar lighter weight more compact cabinets. There are plenty of new and used PH cabinets out there so there's certainly no shortage plus we continue to stock all the repair parts and warranty service should it be necessary.

Don't worry though, I am always working on new designs and listening closely to what Talkbass players are looking for, as you all seem to be ahead of the curve more than anywhere else. Now's your chance to speak up!

i have not had to purchase 6550 or KT 88’s in many years, to service customers amps. Can’t imagine the cost of retubing some of the all tube amps out there.

 

[callofcthulhu]

Just going to jump in here to say that both the Strategy and Prodigy are really hot rodded amps and it's becoming more and more difficult to get consistent quality production KT-88 tubes that can handle the high voltages and currents that are necessary under the wide variety of real world conditions that these amps see in the wild (and getting more and more difficult every day it seems) . They are an expensive tube (especially a set of 8), and when reliability suffers the costs of replacements can get pretty high awfully quickly. Since our warranty is both long and liberal (as many of you are aware of, and some of you have taken advantage of), it has just become impractical to continue with such a costly, almost custom build type amp. There are some still available throughout the dealer network, as well as showing up on the TB classifieds. The warranty is transferable, so if you want one just keep your eyes open.

As far as the Powerhouse cabinets, the days of players seeking out 100+ pound cabinets is coming to a close. Absolutely nothing wrong with the speaker, just that tastes have changed away from this to cabinets like the Subway and similar lighter weight more compact cabinets. There are plenty of new and used PH cabinets out there so there's certainly no shortage plus we continue to stock all the repair parts and warranty service should it be necessary.

Don't worry though, I am always working on new designs and listening closely to what Talkbass players are looking for, as you all seem to be ahead of the curve more than anywhere else. Now's your chance to speak up!

Well, since you asked:

I’m looking for custom tube heads and 100+ pound speaker cabinets.

 

[hennessybass]

Seems like to me that a powered cab might be a good option for the future.
There are so many great pedal size pre-amps (Like the Subway DI). A LOT of guys are using pedal boards anyway, and it seams pretty common that guys are going amp-less these days. Throw a nice pre-amp / DI at the end of your chain, and what do you need an amp for. Power (maybe).
I've seen more than a few guys say that they are using the QSC K series speakers like this. Those are very impressive speakers... but not really geared for bass players.
A nice, lightweight, 2x10 or 115 with a built-in 600w amp would be nice. Especially if you could daisy chain two (or more) of them together.

 

[4SG]

I hereby charge the Mesa Boogie and company with making THE BEST lightweight 410 on the market. It should be easily schlepable, be built like a tank, have thick meaty lows, excellent dispersion and audibility of the midrange/treble frequencies, and generally have a rich, clear, room filling sound. It should also handle 800 watts, come with a 4 ohm option, and have inset non-moving handles. By decree of a guy that loves Mesa gear....

PBassman, that is pretty much exactly what I'd like, too. Either that or an ultralite 2x12 (or both!). I love my 410 Powerhouse but it's not practical for most of my gigs. Too big and too heavy.

 

[aproud1]

Always liked the Prodigy. Never got to play a Strategy. I'm confident it is a beast.

So is now the time for the 700 watt Walkabout?