Mesa Subway 112 vs. Barefaced Super Midget

[ole Jason]

Appreciate all of the discussion. I've come close to buying the SL112 a few times but I would specifically want it for single cab gigs and everything I've read says it just isn't that great. Another cab I plan on checking out soon is the Magellan 112T. Specs and price wise it is pretty similar to the Subway.

 

[Al Kraft]

Men, lets be honest- 2 of any speaker sounds better than 1.

...unless it's a really crappy speaker, then hearing less is better!

 

[mmbongo]

To be fair to Barefaced, and since you say that the Subway " goes deeper, and sounds fuller overall", you may have been better off comparing the Subway 112 with the Barefaced One 10 which has a baked-in character which you could well prefer to the Super Midget.

Funny you should mention that....as I did exactly that, but it was a while ago and I no longer have the One 10. But the One10 can in no way keep up with the volume or depth of either the Super Midget or Subway 112. You'd need at least a pair of One 10's to get close to either of these 12" cabs, and while either of these 12" handle a B string at high volume without sweating, it does not take long for the One 10 to become a fart fest with the B string. Again, not dissing on it...it's just not meant to do that. I think the Two 10 would be a better comparison to these 12" cabs.

 

[dralionux]

But the One10 can in no way keep up with the volume or depth of either the Super Midget or Subway 112.

How is the Hathor 1203 vs Super Midget, I like both but can afford only one.

 

[Plutonium244]

Funny you should mention that....as I did exactly that, but it was a while ago and I no longer have the One 10. But the One10 can in no way keep up with the volume or depth of either the Super Midget or Subway 112. You'd need at least a pair of One 10's to get close to either of these 12" cabs, and while either of these 12" handle a B string at high volume without sweating, it does not take long for the One 10 to become a fart fest with the B string. Again, not dissing on it...it's just not meant to do that. I think the Two 10 would be a better comparison to these 12" cabs.

A Two10 or two One10's would easily keep up with a SM and more. Particularly the Two10 which I think gets slightly lower than 2 One10's due to a bigger enclosure.

 

[mmbongo]

How is the Hathor 1203 vs Super Midget, I like both but can afford only one.

Similar overall loudness, so no clear winner there. Soudwise, the Hathor is much deeper on the bottom and more laid back in the low mids. The Super Midget has a huge low mid punch. Hathor has a dedicated mid driver, Midget has a tweeter. So the Midget can get brighter and the tweeter is adjustable. Hathor has a bit of high mid scoop. Hathor has better dispersion thanks to the bigger bottom end and open mid chamber. Construction wise, it's hard to find anything built as well as an AudioKinesis cab. The whole thing is rock solid and nothing moves, rattles, or flexes...plus it has the best handle design ever. But the Super Midget is much lighter.

Considering the price, it's hard not to recommend the Hathor unless you absolutely positively need the smallest, lightest cabinet possible without giving up too much bottom end and still being able to easily hang with a drummer and loud guitarists.

 

[dralionux]

Considering the price, it's hard not to recommend the Hathor unless you absolutely positively need the smallest, lightest cabinet possible without giving up too much bottom end and still being able to easily hang with a drummer and loud guitarists.

Thank you very much.

 

[mmbongo]

Thank you very much.

My pleasure! I mean really, once you get to the level of any of these cabs you can't go wrong. With Mesa, Barefaced, and AudioKinesis each one does things a little differently and each has their plusses and minuses.

 

[agedhorse]

A Two10 or two One10's would easily keep up with a SM and more. Particularly the Two10 which I think gets slightly lower than 2 One10's due to a bigger enclosure.

How would they hold up to the Subway 210, perhaps that would be a more reasonable comparison?

 

[Pbassmanca]

How would they hold up to the Subway 210, perhaps that would be a more reasonable comparison?

I think the Barefaced 210 is a 4 ohm or 12 switchable cab so I guess when comparing side by side to the Subway 210 one would just have to make sure the same amount of watts were going into them to be a fair comparison?

 

[mmbongo]

A Two10 or two One10's would easily keep up with a SM and more. Particularly the Two10 which I think gets slightly lower than 2 One10's due to a bigger enclosure.

Maybe, but I think it all depends on how much low end you need. I mean you can crank a LOT of low end EQ into the Super Midget without issue, I can't see the Two 10 being able to handle that but I honestly don't know...I'm just going by my experience with my One10.

 

[Pbassmanca]

I would love to hear a Subway 210 getting the full amount of wattage that it is rated for at 8ohms, it has a fantastic deep and punchy sound.

 

[sstillwell]

I would love to hear a Subway 210 getting the full amount of wattage that it is rated for at 8ohms, it has a fantastic deep and punchy sound.

I have NEVER turned up my 2 x 112 / D-800+ up to full war volume (i.e., far enough to start paying attention to cone excursion and "this way lies breakage...") - I've never been in a venue where it was empty enough to allow me to do so, and I sure as he** won't do it at home - I like keeping relationships with neighbors and Johnny Law on the sunny side of things.

All the same, part of me WANTS to do it to see what it'll do.

 

[Tim1]

Funny you should mention that....as I did exactly that, but it was a while ago and I no longer have the One 10. But the One10 can in no way keep up with the volume or depth of either the Super Midget or Subway 112. You'd need at least a pair of One 10's to get close to either of these 12" cabs, and while either of these 12" handle a B string at high volume without sweating, it does not take long for the One 10 to become a fart fest with the B string. Again, not dissing on it...it's just not meant to do that. I think the Two 10 would be a better comparison to these 12" cabs.

Fair comment, but I deliberately did not suggest the Two 10 because - as Agedhorse rightly suggests - a fairer comparison would be with the Subway 210. The OP seemed to prefer a slightly coloured/fuller sound and the Super Midget is designed to be more open and transparent, unlike the One 10 or Two 10. I must say it sounds like I would also love the Subway speakers if I could get a chance to try them.
Since I only play four strings the I have not experienced any farting with my Barefaced 10 cabs, nor would I expect to but I do also have Four 10 and Six 10 options.
On a slightly different note, it is easy and perhaps natural to place volume over tone when comparing cabs and psychoacoustics (is that a word?) probably gives the more efficient cab an initial advantage in a comparison.

 

[agedhorse]

I think the Barefaced 210 is a 4 ohm or 12 switchable cab so I guess when comparing side by side to the Subway 210 one would just have to make sure the same amount of watts were going into them to be a fair comparison?

Correct. The correction in dB is pretty straightforward

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Yes, the entire Subway cabinet was designed to work together from the very beginning. I have addressed this in detail.

Is that why they all kinda have their own "scoop/boost" ranges? From what I could tell (I did some searching since the other day) the 10s had boosted low mids, crisp highs, but missing alot in the overall middle. The twelve had all the middle, but missing the boom and crackle. The 15 was lacking in low mid, but excelling in low and whole high end. That's just from the demo comparisons from Mesa. Where the guys are playin, and the sound switches back and forth on the cabs.

 

[agedhorse]

That's not at all how I would describe any of the Subway cabinets.

The voicing differences are much more subtle than your takeaway.

 

[Al Kraft]

I can only speak to the 112 and 115 as those are the only two SW cabs I have experience with. I too think that summary was more dramatic than the reality I see in the 112 and 115. First off I think that with a bit of EQ the 112 can be very similar to the 115 and vice versa for certain styles and up to a point in volume.

I would say that the 112's inherent voicing in terms of presentation of the mids and how they integrate with the highs and lows create a slightly rounder feel with less low bass extension, and because of the mid fullness there is a less obvious or present top end sticking out from the tonal continuum. Both cabs share very similar (or perhaps identical high frequency drivers) and I suspect it is the crossover where there might be some slight differences to deliver an appropriately seamless transition between the woofer and horn.

The 115 is much fuller in the deep low extension to my ear, very clear and articulate in the mids with a nice smooth transition to presentation of the higher frequencies. At equal settings it seems a bit louder and more low heavy than the 112. However, with some EQ it could sound pretty close to the 112.

The magic for me is that when you have both cabs driven by a single head with only one set of EQ/voicing controls, each cab brings its unique characteristics to the party in a very complementary way. Neither cab was missing something or sounded bad on its own, but they each had notable inherent tonal strengths. When you play them as a pair, they sound like a matched set regardless of what EQ you feed them - for my money that's super cool and some fine engineering!

 

[Daniel Piper]

cool little thread! GAS ignited.

I'd rather have two really good speakers than one really good speakers. J/k

Mesa has just done this whole thing just so damned right.

I remember a few years ago Agedhorse or mesaboogie starting a thread about what TBers would like to see in a Mesa class d head.

They listened then they knocked it out of the park. Then made improvements.

These cabs clearly kill. The little off topic conversation about the SL112 show the importance of both listening to the end user, as well as magnificent design and engineering.

 

[klejst]

I'll second the notion that the Mesa Subway line is nothing short of great if you can appreciate them fully.