Mesa Subway D-800+

[agedhorse]

I never considered the EQ centers to be "thoughtful" on the D800, with three octaves between the high mid and treble.

This is not true, there are 3 octaves between the ultimate SHELF of the treble and the peak (or dip) of the mid, but no filter is a brick wall and if you look in the specs the specification for the treble filter (and what many manufacturers use when specifying the performance of a shelving filter) it states 1 octave from the knee, so the -3dB point of the shelf is actually only 2 octaves from the peak or dip of the high mid band. Now the high mid band has a slope as well (between 6 & 9dB/octave depending on the interaction of other filters), which puts significant adjustment less than 1 octave away.

This is why specifications can be misleading unless read carefully and the details understood. Years ago I routinely got "thumbed into the ground" by my good friend Roger (Hasbeen) for providing too much information. While I disagree with him somewhat, I also totally get where he was coming from because coming from the marketing side he better understood the potential for misunderstanding too much data. There are clearly 2 sides to every coin, and I appreciate Roger's view more than he might have thought

 

[Munjibunga]

This is not true, there are 3 octaves between the ultimate SHELF of the treble and the peak (or dip) of the mid, but no filter is a brick wall and if you look in the specs the specification for the treble filter (and what many manufacturers use when specifying the performance of a shelving filter) it states 1 octave from the knee, so the -3dB point of the shelf is actually only 2 octaves from the peak or dip of the high mid band. Now the high mid band has a slope as well (between 6 & 9dB/octave depending on the interaction of other filters), which puts significant adjustment less than 1 octave away.

This is why specifications can be misleading unless read carefully and the details understood. Years ago I routinely got "thumbed into the ground" by my good friend Roger (Hasbeen) for providing too much information. While I disagree with him somewhat, I also totally get where he was coming from because coming from the marketing side he better understood the potential for misunderstanding too much data. There are clearly 2 sides to every coin, and I appreciate Roger's view more than he might have thought

Wide Q notwithstanding, there should be an EQ center in the 700-1200 Hz range IMO. As I said, several of us predicted the eventual introduction of the D800 with semi-parametric EQ. Why would we think that?

Frankly, I don't think I'm the only one who will be annoyed by the release of this version shortly after the D800 came out. I don't mean to be snarky, but wasn't semi-parametric EQ considered during the design process of the D800?

I like the D800, but it has tone-shaping imitations that I assume will be absent on the D800+. The D800+ is tempting and I may end up with one, but the bottom just dropped out of the used D800 market.

 

[donahue]

I think its just the evolution of the model line. The original was supposed to be compact gig bag friendly. The newer models are aimed at transitioning to be just straight up full sized amps.

I'll even go on a limb to say that IMO most of Mesa's future amps will be class D powered. There will be even bigger ones with multi-channels and even more options, not designed to fit in a gig bag at all. Full size rack-mountable. They already have the Prodigy and Strategy tube amps, now they're gona take class D to new realms, while still offering the compact models. They had to dip their toe in the water first with the D-800.

As far as the used market goes. I'm stoked because I buy most of my gear used (except the new subway preamp) Heck I bet there will be a Subway Preamp/DI + realeased eventually as well. Thats how it goes.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Wide Q notwithstanding, there should be an EQ center in the 700-1200 Hz range IMO. As I said, several of us predicted the eventual introduction of the D800 with semi-parametric EQ. Why would we think that?

Frankly, I don't think I'm the only one who will be annoyed by the release of this version shortly after the D800 came out. I don't mean to be snarky, but wasn't semi-parametric EQ considered during the design process of the D800?

I like the D800, but it has tone-shaping imitations that I assume will be absent on the D800+. The D800+ is tempting and I may end up with one, but the bottom just dropped out of the used D800 market.

Eh, new models with improved features of (fill in any product) come out nearly annually, every year cars are changed and put back on the market.
Dont care about the ebb and flow. Your cell phone which costs nearly as much, or MORE than these heads, are updated nearly every year.... What was the issue again? That the next enhanced model came to market? You lost me.

 

[Munjibunga]

Eh, new models with improved features of (fill in any product) come out nearly annually, every year cars are changed and put back on the market.
Dont care about the ebb and flow. Your cell phone which costs nearly as much, or MORE than these heads, are updated nearly every year.... What was the issue again? That the next enhanced model came to market? You lost me.

That's one point of view. Apple and Microsoft have been using planned obsolescence as a marketing device since their inception. In the '50s and '60s the automobile industry changed body styles every year for the same purpose. OK, so that's the way it is, but just because everybody does it doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I like the D800, but it has tone-shaping imitations that I assume will be absent on the D800+. The D800+ is tempting and I may end up with one, but the bottom just dropped out of the used D800 market.

Did the market really just tank for the D800? I'm not so sure....
And if those extra features are that important why the hell did you buy an amp that wasn't what you wanted?

 

[PolkaHero]

This is why I never buy a brand new product when it's first released. Glad I waited for almost a year and will be in the market for an 800+ in the near future. Gotta at least see how it compares to my Aguilar Tone Hammer amp. I don't think the used market will suffer for the original version though due to the 5-year transferable warranty.

 

[Munjibunga]

Did the market really just tank for the D800? I'm not so sure....
And if those extra features are that important why the hell did you buy an amp that wasn't what you wanted?

A D800 plus is only $100 more than a D800+. I can't see why anyone wouldn't go for the more versatile amp.

I said I like the D800, but have wished publicly that it had a semi-parametric mid. I have seven amps and like all of them, but each one has its own characteristics. If I decide to get a D800+, I'll have to sell the D800 first - you know, last year's model.

 

[Smallequestrian]

A D800 plus is only $100 more than a D800+. I can't see why anyone wouldn't go for the more versatile amp.

I said I like the D800, but have wished publicly that it had a semi-parametric mid. I have seven amps and like all of them, but each one has its own characteristics. If I decide to get a D800+, I'll have to sell the D800 first - you know, last year's model.

I have no interest in the D800+, don't want anything wider/bigger than the D800 and have no use for para mids (and I don't think I'm alone on that by a long shot). If they introduced them at the same time, I bet the regular version outsells the + 3 to 1, espescially when taking the $100 price difference into effect.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

That's one point of view. Apple and Microsoft have been using planned obsolescence as a marketing device since their inception. In the '50s and '60s the automobile industry changed body styles every year for the same purpose. OK, so that's the way it is, but just because everybody does it doesn't mean I have to like it.

Sorry if i came across as you're wrong im right, i intended it as a counter point.

And its what i tell my self EVERYTIME IT HAPPENS GRR.
But at the end of the day , I am still loving the D800.
I accept its simplicity and get the best sound i have ever had with this rig.
No sour grapes here.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I have no interest in the D800+, don't want anything wider/bigger than the D800 and have no use for para mids (and I don't think I'm alone on that by a long shot). If they introduced them at the same time, I bet the regular version outsells the + 3 to 1, espescially when taking the $100 price difference into effect.

I would have bought the plus if it came out at the same time, honestly.
I have had and played the non plus for a year. I dont need the features, want, yes, need? No.
Will i buy a plus? Maybe....

 

[Munjibunga]

Sorry if i came across as you're wrong im right, i intended it as a counter point.

And its what i tell my self EVERYTIME IT HAPPENS GRR.
But at the end of the day , I am still loving the D800.
I accept its simplicity and get the best sound i have ever had with this rig.
No sour grapes here.

No prob. I like the D800 too. But you know where I'm coming from, presumably.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

A D800 plus is only $100 more than a D800+. I can't see why anyone wouldn't go for the more versatile amp.

I said I like the D800, but have wished publicly that it had a semi-parametric mid. I have seven amps and like all of them, but each one has its own characteristics. If I decide to get a D800+, I'll have to sell the D800 first - you know, last year's model.

I get the impression the 800+ came about to some degree based on feedback on the 800. I get your point but if they hadn't gotten user feedback the 800+ may not have been something you'd be pining for quite so much right now. The more features you put on the more careful you have to be with them. Start adding things people don't want and you can go from winner to middle of the pack pretty easily. I really do hear ya though man and you have a valid point based on the older business models we're all used to. But I think long term this new way of doing things is going to stand Mesa in good stead bringing to market what users are really asking for.

Why wouldn't someone go for the more versatile amp? I've said this before but I don't want "versatility". I need one great sound that's easy to get and I'll do the rest with my hands and very occasionally a pedal. Don't want to pay for sweepable mids that will only annoy me and an effects loop I'll never use. But more important is that a class D amp to me is largely about convenience and I most certainly don't want to increase the size with features I don't need.

 

[agedhorse]

A D800 plus is only $100 more than a D800+. I can't see why anyone wouldn't go for the more versatile amp.

I said I like the D800, but have wished publicly that it had a semi-parametric mid. I have seven amps and like all of them, but each one has its own characteristics. If I decide to get a D800+, I'll have to sell the D800 first - you know, last year's model.

From what I have seen, I would expect that more folks prefer the simplicity and straight forwardness of the regular to the plus version regardless of the price difference. Some will the regular model it simply because of the size and weight, some are put off by the additional features as being intimidating. I totally get where they are coming from, and they are very different than you are. It's different models for different players preferences. If the plus is better suited to your needs, there's no shortage of folks who would be totally happy with your used amp that you can sell with the remaining 4 years of factory warranty. No need to be unhappy about it.

Also, the plus is an additional model, the regular D-800 is not last year's model, it remains current and not being discontinued.

Does this help?

 

[Ewo]

Did your significant other get in for free?

LOL! I catch your reference, to another thread. A non-issue, in this case.

 

[agedhorse]

Wide Q notwithstanding, there should be an EQ center in the 700-1200 Hz range IMO. As I said, several of us predicted the eventual introduction of the D800 with semi-parametric EQ. Why would we think that?

Frankly, I don't think I'm the only one who will be annoyed by the release of this version shortly after the D800 came out. I don't mean to be snarky, but wasn't semi-parametric EQ considered during the design process of the D800?

I like the D800, but it has tone-shaping imitations that I assume will be absent on the D800+. The D800+ is tempting and I may end up with one, but the bottom just dropped out of the used D800 market.

Everybody has an opinion, I get it. If the D-800 doesn't meet your needs or expectations then it's simply not the right amp for you, right? Players who need more control and more tweekability should choose a different amp than the D-800, there are plenty of them on the market... in fact you already own a few.

I just might have designed a couple dozen bass amps in my career, many with parametric eq's, so obviously I am familiar with the feature. A high percentage of players we talked with overwhelmingly preferred the smaller, more simplified version to the larger more sophisticated model, which is why that model was introduced first.

So yes, of course it was considered in the design but we listened to the majority of potential customer's wants/needs and released the product that THEY asked for first.

 

[Ewo]

Peeps been kicking around the pros and cons of D-800 owners buying a D-800+. So I thought I'd add my own unique position. (Bocephus reference, there.)

I'm a delighted D-800 user. No kidding, it's one of the very best (meaning, most musical to my ear) amps out there. And then the new D-800+ comes out, with a few more attractive features.

And payday came around, so I got a little spare jingle in my pocket.

So I sez to myself, should I go ahead and treat myself to a D-800+, or should I bank it, hit up Emily Ratajkowsky on Instagram, and see if I can set up a hot date..? Hmn....

Realist that I am, I bought the D-800+.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Peeps been kicking around the pros and cons of D-800 owners buying a D-800+. So I thought I'd add my own unique position. (Bocephus reference, there.)

I'm a delighted D-800 user. No kidding, it's one of the very best (meaning, most musical to my ear) amps out there. And then the new D-800+ comes out, with a few more attractive features.

And payday came around, so I got a little spare jingle in my pocket.

So I sez to myself, should I go ahead and treat myself to a D-800+, or should I bank it, hit up Emily Ratajkowsky on Instagram, and see if I can set up a hot date..? Hmn....

Realist that I am, I bought the D-800+.

Id love to hear your take on the plus Steve.
I may hold off for the dual channel preamp model...
The main thing i miss from my Titan, that and the variable boost.


Since we know @agedhorse listens...

 

[Ewo]

Id love to hear your take on the plus Steve.
I may hold off for the dual channel preamp model...
The main thing i miss from my Titan, that and the variable boost.


Since we know @agedhorse listens...

Cool. Kidding about Emily aside (eh, it's dreams that keep me going these days...), I oughtta have the 800+ in my hands early next week. I'll burn it in at home, and then take it to my weekend gig.

What I'm expecting is that the 800+ will have everything I love about the 800, with the bit of tweakability in the mids. I'm a long-term JJ guy, so the mids are crucial. Might be that I can get a little bit more eggackly where I want it with the semi-para mids. There's a certain kind of bell tone I try to get with slap, beefy but not too cutting, somewhere between old school and modern gospel style. The 800 does fine. Maybe the semi-para mids on the 800+ will kick it up a bit.

I've been running a variable HPF in front of the 800. But if I didn't already have that going, the extra Benjamin for the 800+ would be worth that, alone. That's a super useful feature, IMHO.

 

[dukeorock]

I love my D800. Been my daily driver since I got it around 6-7 months ago. That said, I'll be grabbing an 800+ on November 16th. The extra eq could prove useful on upright gigs, though I've not had any trouble with my normal 800