... and now the D800+ for the rest of us. I've gigged the D800 several times and it does just fine, but you're right - some of us are control freaks. (That's one reason why I put a Flex Core in one of my Sadowskys.)
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Mesa Subway D-800+
- Thread starter donahue
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Well, I've said that a D800+ may be in my future - I find the added features attractive. It'll be interesting to see what I can get for the D800.
I was pining for parametric mids on the D800 the instant I heard what the EQ centers are. I bought it because it sounds good for classic rock, but I'm kind of a tone Nazi and like to get "my sound" out of an amp and my sound isn't the same for everything. This thread is about the Mesa amps, so I won't go into what attracts me to other amps out there.
I agree with many of the points you're making. Personally, the + doesn't appeal. And if resale were not a consideration, for the same price I'd prefer the 800. Too many jam-packed knobs & switches for me on the +, which looks unappealing to my eye and isn't something I'd use, it's larger, and the features aren't ones I'd use other than maybe the Bright switch.
A Class D-powered WalkAbout in a case that looks like an old-school amp, but doesn't add 25 lbs or so and triple the size the way the old "headcase" did, ideally keeping the power toggle and large pilot light (again for looks) and I'd only add a "Mute" toggle. That I'd pay triple for.
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3rd Mesa i have owned.
Always used.
1st NEW IN BOX head and cabs since the 80s.
Decided to buy and put in my order before i was able to hear or touch it in real life.
Absolute leap of faith.
100% happy best tone ever.
Set and forget? No.
Set and grin.
The plus appeals to me primarily because the amp the D800 replaced was a Titan V12.
That head had more knobs than a 70s Oberheim and more input/output options than a 30s telephone switchboard. Tube preamp, tube overdrive for each channel. Floor switched mute, variable floor switch boost, and floor switch overdrive, and of course channel switching.
Do i need all the options, no but i want them.
Oooooh shiny
Always used.
1st NEW IN BOX head and cabs since the 80s.
Decided to buy and put in my order before i was able to hear or touch it in real life.
Absolute leap of faith.
100% happy best tone ever.
Set and forget? No.
Set and grin.
The plus appeals to me primarily because the amp the D800 replaced was a Titan V12.
That head had more knobs than a 70s Oberheim and more input/output options than a 30s telephone switchboard. Tube preamp, tube overdrive for each channel. Floor switched mute, variable floor switch boost, and floor switch overdrive, and of course channel switching.
Do i need all the options, no but i want them.
Oooooh shiny
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That's an understandable viewpoint, but maybe not totally fair. It seems to me that Mesa listened to input from end users on the D800 and made improvements. I for one don't blame them for making what I see as a considerable improvement. In this case, I believe they were damned if they did, but more damned if they didn't. Besides, the D800 still serves the smaller footprint/simpler control/lower cost niche.
I'd also be willing to bet that if you put your mint D800 with case in the for sale section today for $500 it would be gone by the end of the weekend. Hell, if it didn't have to ship up here to Canada with all the duties and brokerage I'd buy it myself.
- Apr 3, 2003
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Not really. The 800+ prototype, which I played at the same time as the 800 prototype, is identical to the "market" version of the 800+, so I think Andy had the design in place prior to the release of the D-800.
Just jumping on board this topic. I wonder how many of those 9 cabs and 8 amps are running for that Mesa demo? The lights on all 8 amps are lit up. Very realistic lol
That said, I wish I could find one to try out. I'ts either the D800 or Puma 900. Damn GAS!
That said, I wish I could find one to try out.
I'ts either the D800 or Puma 900. Damn GAS!
Yep. Well, I'd say they have the same native voice. The difference is in the feature set; that's where they're intended for different market segments.
You can see that in the comments on this thread. Some folks like more knobs to play with, others are in the KISS cohort.
'Sall good.
Good marketing to come out with the first Mesa amp ever without tubes, at a bargain price. Its sucess would pave the way for more innovative products in the future.
Take a look at mesa's history, really pretty conservative as a whole.
This being such a departure from the norm Im sure Randy had some reservations. Up to this point much of mesa's concepts were from his imagination.... This was entirely new and against the grain.
Certainly they could have come out with the more feature laden product. That 100 dollar delta would have placed the product into a different class of competition, wheras the non plus was a no brainer purchace in the price braket.
Smart move to create a buzz with a killer product, prove the demand is there, and follow withan enhanced unit at a low price point that isonly achievable after the manufacturing is streamlined by leveraging the experience gained from making the simpler amp first!
Take a look at mesa's history, really pretty conservative as a whole.
This being such a departure from the norm Im sure Randy had some reservations. Up to this point much of mesa's concepts were from his imagination.... This was entirely new and against the grain.
Certainly they could have come out with the more feature laden product. That 100 dollar delta would have placed the product into a different class of competition, wheras the non plus was a no brainer purchace in the price braket.
Smart move to create a buzz with a killer product, prove the demand is there, and follow withan enhanced unit at a low price point that isonly achievable after the manufacturing is streamlined by leveraging the experience gained from making the simpler amp first!
Hey i had a Titan, point was this, for mesa is a departure from tube and class ab. Makes sense to offer a sub 1k$ amp that to jump into untested waters. The simulclass amps were many models down the line from the simple and awesome 400 which was followed by, the 400+
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They're not "bargain" or "low priced". Mesa never is, and that's OK.
They're priced in line with competitor offerings while coming very late to the Class D party. That's also OK.
OK, gonna fess up. I bought an 800+ when they showed up at the Mesa/Boogie store in Hollywood. One of the few times I've bought a new instrument or amp - I rarely buy new musical or hi-fi stuff. In the era of Internet commerce, I rarely subject myself to sales tax on pricier items if I can avoid it. But I'd been thinking about the Subway for a while, and when I saw the new feature set, I knew I needed to check it out.
Due to a cancellation I've yet to gig it, but will check it out in a rehearsal setting Monday night. At home, I've been playing it in a small room, through a Fearless f112, and am very, very impressed. Still not getting that last bit of front-end definition and attack that comes with my Thunderfunk, but the Subway is very pleasing on most other fronts, and actually sounds - and feels - a good bit like the Thunderfunk in many ways.
On the tone controls, I was immediately drawn to the dual adjustable mid-ranges, with lots of overlap. When playing fretted, I like to boost a bit in the 150-200 Hz. range, then pull back a good bit somewhere around 2kHz to eliminate fret noise. I find with those settings and the voicing control around 9-10 o'clock, I'm getting the sound I like. I'd hoped for this, it works as expected, and that is good. The build quality inspires confidence, although I've not opened it up and peered inside.
What comes as a total surprise is the utility of the High Pass control. I've never been around one of these before, and really like how a little bit of adjustment seems to go a long way in optimizing my 5-string through the f112. And the somewhat warmer, darker, fuller native timbre of the Subway is a good match for the f112, although I would not have needed an 800+ to realize that benefit.
One small niggle - it would have been cool if the treble, bass and mid-range gain controls had a center detent, but no biggie. And to the extent I've been thinking about getting a second f112 for larger things and retiring my AK Thunderchild 115 (4-ohm), I'm not sure this will provide enough juice.
Nevertheless, this could well be a long-term keeper. And I don't think it will eliminate the market for the regular 800, which will satisfy those who prefer fewer knobs, or who prefer the smaller box.
And later I'll be doing some TB searches to see what f112 and Hathor users have to say about how those cabinets pair up with the Subway...I understand Nostatic has used Hathor and Subway for a while...
Due to a cancellation I've yet to gig it, but will check it out in a rehearsal setting Monday night. At home, I've been playing it in a small room, through a Fearless f112, and am very, very impressed. Still not getting that last bit of front-end definition and attack that comes with my Thunderfunk, but the Subway is very pleasing on most other fronts, and actually sounds - and feels - a good bit like the Thunderfunk in many ways.
On the tone controls, I was immediately drawn to the dual adjustable mid-ranges, with lots of overlap. When playing fretted, I like to boost a bit in the 150-200 Hz. range, then pull back a good bit somewhere around 2kHz to eliminate fret noise. I find with those settings and the voicing control around 9-10 o'clock, I'm getting the sound I like. I'd hoped for this, it works as expected, and that is good. The build quality inspires confidence, although I've not opened it up and peered inside.
What comes as a total surprise is the utility of the High Pass control. I've never been around one of these before, and really like how a little bit of adjustment seems to go a long way in optimizing my 5-string through the f112. And the somewhat warmer, darker, fuller native timbre of the Subway is a good match for the f112, although I would not have needed an 800+ to realize that benefit.
One small niggle - it would have been cool if the treble, bass and mid-range gain controls had a center detent, but no biggie. And to the extent I've been thinking about getting a second f112 for larger things and retiring my AK Thunderchild 115 (4-ohm), I'm not sure this will provide enough juice.
Nevertheless, this could well be a long-term keeper. And I don't think it will eliminate the market for the regular 800, which will satisfy those who prefer fewer knobs, or who prefer the smaller box.
And later I'll be doing some TB searches to see what f112 and Hathor users have to say about how those cabinets pair up with the Subway...I understand Nostatic has used Hathor and Subway for a while...
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I'm going to respond to this in the thread about another builder's amp.
This is why specifications can be misleading unless read carefully and the details understood. Years ago I routinely got "thumbed into the ground" by my good friend Roger (Hasbeen) for providing too much information. While I disagree with him somewhat, I also totally get where he was coming from because coming from the marketing side he better understood the potential for misunderstanding too much data. There are clearly 2 sides to every coin, and I appreciate Roger's view more than he might have thought
Designing and drafting rigging systems mostly for film these days I have to provide documented load calculations. I'm not an engineer and can't use all the information every manufacturer provides but knowing that everything they can provide is all in one place serves two purposes.
One. I know what information is available for me to work with and don't have guess about that or fill in gaps via other sources. What I don't need or completely understand today I might tomorrow. Abridging the information to protect fools from themselves only bones me. Let Darwinism run its course I say.
Two. What I don't understand very often lights a fire under my ass to learn. Being frustrated by my own ignorance has always been a highly motivating factor.
Have we had this conversation before? It feels kinda familiar.....
Interesting... can you tell me where? I learn a lot from your posts, so I'd like to read...
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